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|Wangan Midnight Expressway Forums > Automotive > Oddmanout84's Z build|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 04:26 PM|
| Well, this is my build thread. I've posted a few pics of it on the "Almighty Z thread", but now I'm making my own. The reasons for it are 3 fold;
1. When I started posting my stuff on the other thread, I inadvertently turned it into a troubleshooting thread by posting the problems I was having. Sorry guys...
2. Because I like showing off.
3. I want to convince anyone here in this forum who is a fan of Wangan Midnight not to rush out and buy an S30 Z just because you think its cool. That is, unless you are willing to sacrifice (in copious amounts) Time, Effort, and Money. Or just a greater amount of money and some time (but where's the fun in paying a shop to work on your car). Call me a jerk if I'm busting your bubble, but I'm doing it to save you the previous commodities mentioned. And maybe saving a few Zs.... If you live anywhere in the world where a strange white substance regularly falls from the sky at a certain time of year, your "Devil Z" waiting for you to save it from the local junkyard is likely to look something like this.
Your best bet is to search for a Z that's from someone who meticulously maintained it, or one from the Southwest US. Even those have their problems though. The reason the Z is so special in that anime is because there just aren't that many left in Japan, or the world in general, that aren't rotted rusty hulks. Once upon a time when I was stationed in Okinawa and had a local GF, the mere mention of my Z around her and her friends would send offers flying around the table. Its that coveted.
Short and to the point, its a lot of work, and luckily I was ready for it. Not to say it doesn't suck sometimes, though...
The story of my Z begins in the town of Escondito CA, just a bit northeast of San Diego, where I picked it up. $1600 off an ad I saw in the Autotrader mag. The guy already had a VW golf he was tricking out, so he didn't have time for the Z. My gain. Driving it around it didn't seem like it was in too bad shape, either. The only glaring flaw that it had was the disgusting "T-roof" (moontop, splitmoon, whatever... half-ass cross between T-Tops and Moonroof). As I later found out, nearly all the weatherstripping on the car was shot, especially the retard roof which leaked like crazy when it rained. The steering wheel, like everything else rubber or plastic in the car was severely dryrotted. I could touch certain things and they would crumble to dust. Good thing it had a dash cap. also, the carpet and anything covered in vinyl was torn and disgusting. Who cares though, it ran!
Couple weeks later, I decided to be nice and let my friend borrow it so he could take the wife out and look at apartments in the area. 20 minutes after taking off I got a call saying he rear ended someone. Apparently upon getting onto the highway he let loose on the gas and slammed into an '03 Impala, because he had no idea how to handle a car without ABS (which I had warned him about). The Impala was totalled, my Z came out with a slightly bent front bumper and a cracked radiator core. For the next several months while I finished flight school, I kept several gallons of fresh water in the trunk so I could regularly refill the radiator. Stop leak did nothing, tried every brand. I also began to find out that my shocks were shot, as when I went over the slightest bump the rear of the car would bottom out (tire to wheel well). Luckily through driving sparingly for a couple months, I saved the car from dying, and had a shop replace my radiator (had no free time to do it myself due to flight school). I also gave it a primer gray parking lot special, a new steering wheel and shift knob. Once I finished training (finally), I began the long drive home to the east coast where I would store the Z at my parent's house. Didn't have a single problem.
The car sat, cocooned in several tarps from bottom to top and over the top again for almost 4 years. moisture traps were placed inside to control the humidity.
Once a year around Christmas I'd come home on leave from Okinawa and unwrap the car to see if it was still ok. Every year it started and ran.
This September, when I finally got out of the service, I unwrapped it and tried to start it. No dice. The car just cranked and cranked. So I got some help to push it 30 feet to the garage so I could begin work on it. Progress has been very slow, but I've done a lot to it. The car will now start and run for about 2 seconds until it dies (ie, only the cold start injector is firing, not the other 6). Now that the distributor is replaced so I've got spark, I need to hunt this EFI gremlin down.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 04:31 PM|
| Its time for a montage!
September '08- January '09
Ok, That sucked for a montage. But it shows just the changes to the front exterior anyway.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ Jan 13 2009, 04:34 PM|
| Lol FINALLY you put your build thread up!
Btw, diggin the fake bullet holes on the rear passenger quarter.
When did you buy it? I saw the "once a year I'd unwrap it" comment, and I didnt see anywhere you mentioned how long you've had it.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 04:48 PM|
| These are the things that really matter, where most of my time has been spent.
Master cylinder. Its still in pieces waiting to be reassembled. The brakes were coming off the rear anyway, so I removed it. When I looked inside I found that over the years the brake fluid turned into green grease.
Inside the distributor. Hmmm... so that's why I had no spark before.. Cleaned it out, replaced the magnetic pickup and it works. However, I couldn't disassemble it entirely, and the vacuum advance is probably shot. So I ordered a new one.
Air flow meter was binding up, so I cracked it open and ground out the spot where the flap was sticking. Good thing it was fixable, because remanufactured ones cost $300 and up. Must be made out of gold.
Painted this for fun.
The suspension needed work, so I took it apart entirely. I also hate drum brakes, so this...
...became this. All pieces were cured of rust, primed and painted. Rear disc brake kit was installed.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 04:50 PM|
Lol, crap... you're right! I've had it since the summer of '04, not sure what month but I'm pretty sure it was August. So I've had it for almost 5 years.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 04:56 PM|
| The engine got some love too.
By the way, Duplicolor High Temp orange does NOT match VHT orange. fuk..
New exhaust before painting
Installed. Unfortunately, when I looked at it the other day, it looks like it will rub on the driver rear tire unless I install spacer (which I plan to do anyway). Who knows though, it might not. I was just gauging it by eye, never tried fitting the wheel to it.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 05:02 PM|
The front suspension is getting ready to be reinstalled!
Almost forgot, this is what I've been using (along with Energy Suspension's master bushing kit)
Crap... that box barely shows anything. Tokico gas struts (non-adjustable) and Eibach springs.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 13 2009, 05:15 PM|
| Installed this today, hee hee...
I almost crapped my pants doing it too. Making sure I was drilling holes in my hatch at the right spots with little reference was scary! The method I used was to take the spoiler and mock it up on the hatch, make a couple reference marks. Then I took the supplied bolts and HAND tightened them into the spoiler as far as they could go, then coted their heads with a dab of grease. Lined the spoiler up as best I could and plopped it down. Drilled holes where the center of each grease splotch was. Very nerve wracking. However, it worked, and it looks like I was dead on!
|Posted by: PanzerAce Jan 13 2009, 10:55 PM|
|Nice build. Going to be keeping the engine stock, or something new? (And what year? I'm hoping you got a pre-75 for smog, but I can't ID S30s just by the bumpers)|
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ Jan 14 2009, 02:26 AM|
My twice pipes setup looked the same way, but didnt seem to rub, but it was maybe a half inch from the tire
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jan 14 2009, 03:15 AM|
|Nice build, Keep us updated!!!!|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 14 2009, 09:04 AM|
Good thing you guys are here to comment, it seems I keep leaving out details!
The car is a 1978, and unfortunately its California spec, so it has all the emissions stupidity on it. Since I installed the headers, I've been at a loss on what to do with the open EGR hole on the bottom of my intake, as I'm without a welder. So I covered it with duct tape for now.
Plans for this car are to make it fast and maneuverable. Just a balance between the two, not all out power. Max hp I can really see myself wanting is 400. Anything beyond that is just crazy! Sadly, the stock L28 will go at some point, as will the headers and twice pipes that I've spent so much time on. After that it will be set aside for me to make an NA monster out of it at some point. I think I'll carb it too.
I have a few choices in what motor to replace it with. The one more readily available is the L28ET that's sitting in the garage. Still needs some things to get it running (megasquirt, piping, etc) and I'd like to rebuild it too just to make sure everything is hunkydory inside. My other choice is an SR20DET. Why? My cousin bought one to put in a 240sx, and never got around to it. Its been sitting in his garage for a few years, and I just saw it over the holidays, pretty clean. And it has everything it needs to run, including tranny, wiring and the ECU. Using that engine would shave a decent amount of weight from the car, and improve my weight ratio. There's also a stupidly abundant aftermarket support for these motors in the states now, something that the RB doesn't quite have yet (and the L28 is too old to have).
So... we'll see. Right now I'm finishing up the suspension and killing any rust I find. I need to get the bodywork done soon, because I want to paint it this spring when the weather is warm again.
|Posted by: PanzerAce Jan 14 2009, 01:48 PM|
| I would say that since you have to get the car smogged, *don't* use the SR20 on it, since I think CARB gets pissed if you use a Jspec engine that never came on the car originally. However, you COULD use the L28et legally, as long as you got the car smogged as a 280ZXT.
And while carbs are awesome, I'd say skip them when/if you rebuild it, and just use ITBs or something. Especially if you already know MS and all that.
So, short version: L28et (or L29/30/31/32et) into what you have now, and SR20 into a 510 or pre-75 Z.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 14 2009, 02:49 PM|
Meh heh heh... I don't have to worry about sucktastic CA emissions anymore! I'm on the other coast!!
Besides, car is over 30 years old now, smog exempt baby!
|Posted by: dragoon20005 Jan 14 2009, 11:31 PM|
| This S30 fairlady is looking good but dont forget to give the car the midnight blue paintjob.
BTW are you going to install the anti-roll bar and major spot welding to the body?
Your brakes are nice but I believed the Devil Z uses slotted rotors.
Wonder is there are still rims out there with the same design as the Devil Z RS Watanabe 8 spokes rim.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 15 2009, 07:00 AM|
| There's a reason the thread description is "Not your Devil Z". The car is not a Devil Z replica. Paint is not going to be midnight blue, the plan now has it going to be Hugger orange with black accents (hood, rear spoiler, trim, etc). I have not decided if I will blend the fender flares into the same color of the body, or make them black.
The wheels that I'm looking at now are 16x8 XXR 513's, due to them being the best wheel I can find in that style at that price. RS Watanabes are almost $3000 USD for a set, so I don't think I'll be dropping cash for them anytime soon (zomg, I think 3 grand is enough to cover all the paint, tools, and parts I've bought so far for this car). Not worth it in my book, at least not at this stage. Slotted rotors and bigger front brakes, those will come later. The car has plenty of stopping power for the amount of horses the engine currently puts out. Roll bar will also come later, whenever I decide to start bringing it to sanctioned races (if ever).
I really don't see the point in making a Devil Z replica when I can make something really nice with my own creativity. I'm taking a little of all the styles I like and putting them together on my car. The paint scheme comes from the 432, fender flares from the ZG, BRE spoiler, etc. I'll also be adding headlight covers both to add style, aerodynamics and resistance to rocks. I'm still trying to get my hands on a set of JDM fender mirrors. You know, the ones that are sometimes on the Devil Z in one camera angle then gone the next. Very hard to find... but I think it will complete my total look.
If for some reason the world went crazy and I decided to replicate the Devil Z, I think I'd start with an RHD Fairlady. NOT because I like RHD (I never enjoyed it, even while living in Oki for 2.5 years), but because it would be easier to do the same twin turbo setup with the carburated L28. Like I said though, cats and dogs living together.
So, not to be an ASS, but I'll make this statement so future readers will know. This is not going to be Akio's Devil Z. This is MY Z. I'm going to do the best I can to restore it and tune the piss out of it, and I'll add my personal touches to complete its look. Its not going to be a copycat.
|Posted by: dragoon20005 Jan 16 2009, 05:44 AM|
true that each of us have our own style of modding our rides
my Forester is unique coz its using a refurbished GC8V WRX STi Type R drivetrain.
minus the Devil Z bits I think you could invest good money to strengthen the chassis.
|Posted by: DOHC Jan 16 2009, 08:37 AM|
| I do not think anybody in this forum would ever make a actual replica of the 240z;far to expensive if you ask me.
Oddmanout84 going with orange just love how it stands out
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 16 2009, 10:00 AM|
|In all honesty, orange is far from being a favorite color of mine. However, it just seems like it really fits on a Z. As for my suspension, I don't know what's up with the lighting on my camera. Its making everything look like a bright baby blue, the same color as those Tokico gas cartridges. In reality, the suspensions pieces I've painted are much darker blue.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 21 2009, 07:12 PM|
| Usually, my doctrine is function over form. However, since I'm already planning on painting this bucket in spring, I've allowed myself to deviate from my usual method.
Yes, the JDM Fender mirrors are in. I finally bit the bullet and got a set from ebay (with a "relatively" low buyitnow price). Came direct from Japan, new in box, and they came here QUICK! So of course I took no time drilling holes in my fenders to install them. Not saying that I didn't do it carefully. I meticulously followed a diagram that had the measurements mirrored from the RHD diagram. I am absolutely anal when it comes to drilling holes in expensive and rare metal so it paid off. I can't decide whether I'm going to paint them black or not... They're so shiny... yes... my precious...
I also mocked up my fender flares just to give myself an idea of how it will look. Keep in mind that they are by no means in the position that I will be drilling holes at. Just temporary.
Oh, and as you can see, the car is no longer flying a foot above the ground. I had to drop it to mock up the flares, and because I'm sick of it floating there. Holy crap! I forgot how low this car was! And the springs only lowered it about 1-1.5". I'm only 5'9" and I'm towering over it. I'm also not showing off the refurbished front suspension for a reason. I still have the stock front brakes hooked up to the hubs, so they're brown and look like crap. At least the calipers and everything else are a nice blue color though. And TexasDemonZ, you were right. I have about 1-2" of clearance between my driver's rear wheel and the twicepipes. A nice discovery, but I'll be adding new low offset wheels with spacers in the future anyway.
Stay tuned for the madness that ensues...
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 25 2009, 04:52 PM|
| The car now runs, and sounds awesome. I need to figure out how to post videos on youtube...
Its still not roadworthy though. The clutch cylinder is disconnected, as are the brakes, and the steering rack is not installed. Not to mention all the exterior lights are out. Lots more work still needs to be done, but at least I can amuse myself by running the car once in a while and listen to the music. Need to find a way to plug that hole where the EGR piping was... I don't think the duct tape that's currently there is a viable option.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 25 2009, 10:47 PM|
I gave my car its face back, just not the eyes.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jan 29 2009, 10:50 PM|
|As you can see in the pictures above, I have not painted the frame area around the radiator yet. I'm posting this because its brown-ness been bothering me, lol|
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ Feb 4 2009, 11:56 AM|
|digging the ZG flares and the fender mirrors|
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Feb 4 2009, 04:46 PM|
|Great work, keep us posted (not that I need to remind you, you seem to be pretty good at it).|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Feb 12 2009, 10:16 AM|
| Progress is a beautiful thing.
After having a huge hassle hooking up the brakes (wrong fittings supplied with rear brake lines, had to source the right one from Summit), I finally bled all the hydraulic systems and was ready to take the Z out for the first time in 6 months. The E-brake cables were waaaaay too long to fit on the 240sx calipers, so I did what most people did with this conversion and crossed the cables to the opposite sides. Then I crossed them again.
Lol, from what I've read on other builds, they only had to cross the cables over ONCE! However, mine were so long that I had to swap them over 4 times. It looks like there's a damn twizzler under my car. And they're still a bit too long, as pulling the handle only slightly engages the rear brakes. Hopefully there's a nut under there somewhere where I can adjust the tension on the line.
That being done I lowered the car onto her wheels and decided to do the smart thing; Take a test drive up and down an unlit driveway at 1am with no lighting on the car whatsoever. It worked, but I think I enjoyed the test drive this afternoon more. Those JDM fender mirrors are mounted correctly, but their field of view is far from optimal. They give a great view of the sky above and behind me, but not much else. Their adjustments are not enough to bring the view downward enough. I'm 5'9", so its not like I'm a midget craning to see over the steering wheel. I think I'll try installing some shims at the fwd portions of the mirror mounts to decrease the angle they're sitting at. Hopefully this works, as even though they were reasonably priced (for fender mirrors), they were still damn expensive and I like the style they add to the Z too much to remove them.
Now that this is just about over with though, I can start focusing all my effort on the interior. The underside of the car is just about done, with maybe a few minor tweaks needed. I've chipped away nearly all of the sound deadening tar crap so its just about time to clean up the surfaces and lay down a new coat of rust preventing paint (and some 3M rubberized undercoat for the floors). This next part will make many of you cringe (and I'm cringing at the thought too), but there is a small hole on my passenger floorpan. I'm going to be fiberglassing it, because I don't have the means to weld it. Don't worry!! Its temporary! I hate the idea too, but I don't have much of a choice...
Until the Z is roadworthy enough to where I can drive to my uncle's house (he has a welder), I need a temp fix. I'm breaking out the fiberglass anyway to fill the old mirror holes on the doors, and to shave the rear bumper. And all the filler is fiberglass reinforced waterproof. Globerunner seems to have done a really good job with the stuff in the past, so I'm going to try following in his footsteps.
I will post more pics when the process begins...
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Feb 12 2009, 05:00 PM|
Spoke too soon. One look at the FSM and there it is... a nut for adjusting cable tension.
[ Post merged on [mrgtm]1234543583[/mrgtm] ]
Since I started this project in August, I've had an early ZX turbo L6 sitting in my garage. When I was just starting to undertake this "labor of love" in doing a performance resto on my Z, the prospect of a turbocharged engine swap excited me. So much so that I went through great pains to find one locally, which cost me $800 because it had to be removed from a donor car by the man who helped me find it. Although the motor looks to be mechanically sound from when I partially disassembled it, the PO appeared to have tried a half-attempted rebuild. He could not get the motor to run afterwords, and hence the car sat, and subsequently was sold. The problem was likely electrical.
I received almost everything, wiring harness and all, except for the computer (MIA) and the crank angle sensor. The car was auto, so there was no clutch/flywheel included. Other than that, I was pleased.
Months have gone by, and the motor is still sitting in the same spot in my garage, untouched save for the various extremities that I removed and set aside so I could remove the head from the block. Oh, I guess I forgot the one thing that was screwed up. Some goober crossthreaded the #1 spark plug. Not incredibly terrible. But as my project has progressed, all I can do every time I look at, step over, or touch the motor when I have to move something near it, is get an overwhelming sense of regret. If anything, it will be a long time before I even attempt to swap it into my Z. The fact that I just got the original equipment running has been an odyssey in itself, I don't even want to think about breaking everything again. That and fixing the rest of the car has become rather... costly. Add to that the fact that I'd want to FULLY rebuild the turbo motor and do everything right, and the money + time keeps adding up.
Don't get me wrong, I still love the idea of turboing my car, its just with everything else that's piling up its pushing that endeavor further and further back in line. I'm having difficulty deciding now; do I sell the motor and get something later down the road? Or do I sit on it for a later time, maybe using some of the parts as spares in the mean time?
As such I flatly refuse to display any sort of HybridZ sticker or emblem on my car until said named swap is completed. It just seems wrong to do so otherwise. Taking that further, maybe my car shouldn't even be posted on this forum... yet.
I'm at a loss. My overzealousness at the conception of this project got the better of me. If I get any worthy offers for local pickup, I may just give in and sell it, and find something else down the road...
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Feb 22 2009, 10:14 AM|
| Here's a prime example of what not to do with rust holes:
Yes, that is fiberglass. And no, I'm not proud of it. The only consolation I have for myself is that its temporary. At this time, its one of the things I need to get the car back on the road. If I didn't do something, I'd be ruining the refurbished interior that I've been working so hard lately to fix (though maybe not as hard as AK Z's ). I got lucky with most of my rust, however annoying it may still be. In a few months I should be able to take a trip up to my uncle's, where I'll get a welding refresher (haven't welded a thing in about a decade) and the Z will get a proper patching.
|Posted by: AK-Z Feb 22 2009, 01:18 PM|
| I take it that you have some brake upgrade in stored with that proportioning valve.
Floor looks good. Just expect to replace it in the future. Remember what mull found in his first vid .
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Feb 22 2009, 02:08 PM|
And yes, the rear brakes were swapped for a disc setup using 240sx calipers and 300ZX rotors (Modern Motorsport kit). Its funny though, because the diameter of the rear discs dwarfs the front.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Feb 23 2009, 08:19 PM|
| Last night I finally removed the Z's rear seat.
Look how far the twice pipes stick out. I could skewer a small child with that, and cook 'em at the same time too. Great solutions for when I get hungry on the road.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ Feb 27 2009, 10:09 AM|
Lol, that looks familiar......
|Posted by: AK-Z Feb 27 2009, 01:15 PM|
| 240z tail lights. nice
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Feb 27 2009, 01:32 PM|
| Your twice pipes are installed MUCH better than mine, lol. I see you also replaced a few bulbs on your tail lights with LED units. How well do they work? I've been considering it myself since I got an LED dome light bulb/kit/thing, but I've held off because I don't know how well the light will spread inside the casing (ie, I don't want a couple bright dots, but rather an even bright light inside).
[ Post merged on [mrgtm]1235786437[/mrgtm] ]
Obviously I have almost no ability to focus on a single project with this car.
It took a few days and was a total b*tch and a half to do, but my new carpet is is for the most part, along with the dash, new center console, shift boot, etc. I'm not done trimming the carpet, as you can see, and its not tacked down to the body in any way (besides the holes I cut for bolts). I almost that this was a sectional kit, and not a molded one. Really, quite a bit of work involved especially since there were so many holes that I needed to nervously and carefully cut in all the right places. The rear deck, pillars and roof all need to be de-browned before I'm really "finished". As you can see, the carpet is nowhere near clean, and has chunks of joot padding all over the f*cking place. No, that is not a "cigarette" at the bottom of the second picture. After 6 years of killing my lungs, I've finally wussed out and bought one of those "e-cigs". So far today its done its job and kept me from freaking out, and its allowed me to "smoke" and work on the car at the same time without fear of stinking up my brand new stuff. With luck in a few days I'll start hacking up brown stuff as my lungs begin to clean themselves again. Wheee!! Fun times!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 11 2009, 07:02 PM|
| New goodies!
Easily wired in, new MSR casings and an upgraded headlight relay harness from Blackdragon to improve headlight intensity and reduce wear on my combo switch (which had a little bit of meltage starting on the inside when I inspected it). I'm thoroughly impressed with it, and have had no issues that several whiners have complained about, i.e. "Waaaa! I had to cut the harness to make it fit and then my headlights started burning out and they had too much glare!".
These headlights have almost NO glare, and are the next best thing to projectors as far as I'm concerned. I met some guy at autozone a while ago who had the typical "ebay" casings on his Z. The difference is astronomical. His sucked, mine don't. The harness is also easy to install with no cutting or splicing. You just have to disconnect the connectors (that ultimately connect to your lights) in order to feed them through the headlight bucket, easily done with a pick or a jeweler's flathead.
The bulbs in the car are NOT HID, unfortunately, just bright-ass halogens. I will definitely cross that bridge when I come to it though, I just wanted to test the casings before I dumped money on HIDs, then found out that I'd have to get projector lenses instead.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Mar 12 2009, 02:25 AM|
|Woo! Updates, keep them coming!|
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 12 2009, 06:48 AM|
|Are those Hellas? Or Cibies?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 12 2009, 08:19 AM|
You know, I have no idea. They weren't labled except for "Crystal Clear Headlight-7" Taiwan" on a small decal showing the part number on the box. Got them from Black Dragon Automotive (aka Victoria British), where they're advertised as "Euro Style Headlights". Despite the dubious nature of their origins, they seems to be pretty good quality.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ Mar 16 2009, 10:18 AM|
They're generic 7" round retrofit headlight housing/lenses and a 9003 (h4 for motorcycles) bulb in the back. I have a set myself. If the actual bulbs came with the retrofit lens/housing, then odds are the bulb is an Eiko as those are the cheapest ones. Could be an osram/sylvania possibly, but I doubt it.
I dont know who makes Black Dragons retrofit headlight Lens/housing. But pretty much every brand looks/works the same.
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 16 2009, 10:25 AM|
Got a pic of the beam pattern against a wall? From looking at the pictures they look like they have the lens pattern of Hellas so i wonder if they are replicas. In my experiance ive had bad luck with generic headlamps
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 16 2009, 11:07 AM|
I'll try to post a pic of the beam pattern once I finish shaving my car's butt.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ Mar 16 2009, 03:40 PM|
I seriously doubt they are hellas. And Unfortunatey I do not have a beam pattern. and using these bulbs, he'll pretty much have to convert the headlight wiring over to a relay setup. The stock setup runs directly from the light switch, and the voltage drains down to only about 9 or so volts at the headlights, that's one of the biggest reasons why S30 headlights are always so dim compared to newer non-HID headlights.
The diamond cut pattern is a generic design used by around 75% of the companies who make these.
The ones I have are similar to his, but were sold by APC before they went bankrupt.
The standard headlight back in the time of the S30's was a Sealed beam type. The bulb was a part of the lens assembly.
What he and I have are a lens assembly that doubles as a housing for a capsule styled bulb. In this case the 9003/H4
They're a dime a dozen, and all look pretty close to the same, the style he has is one of the most popular. They housings are for sure not Hellas, and I doubt the bulb is either. Whether or not they were based on a design that was originally used by hella, I dont know.
But I know these are not Hellas
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 16 2009, 04:42 PM|
Yeah, as stated before, I got a relay harness at the same time as the lights. Both are installed. Only I think I had a better idea when I installed the harness. Instead of taking power directly from the battery to power the lights (as the instructions say), I routed both relay switches through a couple fuses first.
I may not have had to cut and splice any wires during my experience (what most people complain about when they mention the blackdragon kit), but in doing so the lights will be harder to completely remove from the car. I think I may end up cutting the wires near the bulbs and installing connectors so they can be more easily separated from the rest of the harness and the car.
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 16 2009, 05:06 PM|
|Hmmm ive heard bad things about those Generic Lamps *shrug* but i have to ask why not just buy Hella or Cibie lamps? Thats what most of the FC, and Supra guys do.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 16 2009, 06:01 PM|
Most of what Hella offers are upgrades from sealed beams to casings that allow replacements of the bulbs instead of the whole assembly (like what I have). However, most of these are not MSR (multi surface reflectors) with a clear lens like what's on my Z. The other 7" lenses that hella offers are really foglamps, which won't project as focused a beam.
I'm not a "headlight scientist" or anything but I think the MSRs I got are better suited to what I'm using them for (though they may be retrofitted foglamps themselves, who knows). And I think they look nice. And they're a bit cheaper. Honestly I have no experience with hellas or cibie lamps so maybe I'll give them a shot down the road if these casings turn out to suck.
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 16 2009, 07:06 PM|
| Im running Hellas and they are technically for offroad (Rally Lights) use only but they are E-Code lamps (European Code) which have a cut to the right to help illuminate sidewalks in other words they SHOULD be Super Legal here as DOT spec lamps like Sylvania Silverstars are complete trash. In other words these are what came standard for the EDM market.
You should get these because the 7" lamps have the same lens pattern and they will have a great cutoff with a halogen bulb.
Sylvania SilverStars Sealed Beam
Hella E-Codes w/ Phillips Xtreme Power Bulbs
Hella E-Codes w/ 8000K HID Kit (w/ Glare Shields)
eBay Diamond Cut Lamp
On wall about 10ft away
eBay housing on Left, Hella housing on Right
Im running the same Headlmaps and my pics of the beam pattern is closer to show the cuttoff and how direct it is. But as you can see the dimaond cut lamps scatter light around and thats not good for other drivers coming the opposite direction.
In all honesty ive seen eBay lamps in person are they are complete and utter crap, i dont know about yours since i dont know much about them but i do know eBay lamps are glare monsters from hell.
|Posted by: rx-666 Mar 16 2009, 07:55 PM|
|i had those same ebay lights, but the yellow ones, on my fd, they looked about the same, only yellower. not the greatest but sadly slightly better than stock|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 25 2009, 08:04 AM|
I feel kinda slackerish for not posting any updates for a while, but trust me, its been nothing exciting. The wait will be worth it when I do finish me current part of the project.
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 25 2009, 01:27 PM|
|this post is worthless without pics|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 25 2009, 03:11 PM|
Oh, I see how it is!! You're going to make me waste precious time and memory card space to prove myself, lol. Poor 56k users...
Alright, but its not going to be exciting...
I already posted this hint-pic in another thread, but here it is again;
Can't see the color label? Hmm... how thoughtless of me... As you can see though, I reneged me previous decision to paint the car with that Duplicolor Paintshop brand. After weeks of looking at posts citing that the product (as with all lacquer based paints) TOTALLY SUCKS, I finally caved. If I were painting a classic car for shows that would only see a few days of sunshine a year, maybe I would have. It has the best shine around. But it also deteriorates the quickest. Unacceptable for what's going to be my DD, AND the paint I got was actually cheaper. I finally decided to go for single-stage polyurethane base, for durability and what seemed like the next easiest paint to spray for a total paint-noob. So, we'll see... Hopefully I don't waste the stuff and do a decent job.
Also got an HVLP gun to shoot the paint.
Sooo... lots and lots of prep work is still ahead. If I didn't have my air powered DA sander, I think I would have killed myself already.
Every time I open the can of filler, a little part of me dies inside. I'd much rather be welding new metal in, but once again, I haven't welded crap since 8th grade... and I don't have a welder, or a friend with a welder (besides my friend's bro... but his shop is miles away and I decided to make the car roadworthy before I register). Luckily, what you see here is the waterproof variety, with a very thin layer of bondo gold on top to smooth it out. Even short strand FG filler is too rough when sanded, usually. The holes were patched with fiberglass cloth and resin for the back, then covered with 3m rubberized undercoating (same method as Globerunner's Z).
Look Ma! No more Yankee mirror holes!
And the missing e-brake brackets on my calipers arrived at Nissan today. Needless to say, my handbrake now actually locks the brakes.
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 25 2009, 06:13 PM|
|looks like its going be silver based on your sig, and how is that not exciting its getting a paint job you loser|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 25 2009, 07:31 PM|
Lol, by "not exciting" I was referring to the process leading up to the painting. Sanding and smoothing and bodywork sucks ass. Very tedious. And my sig pic was based on the current look of the Z at the time I got that pixelcar. Its supposed to be primer gray, but even though it would be accurate for me to change it now into a mess of brown, primer, black and gold bondo, I don't think its really worth the effort, heh heh.
Hint: It won't be silver, and I'm going to paint the urethane airdam the same color as the rest of the body.
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Mar 25 2009, 08:52 PM|
| Hey cant believe I've neglected this thread for so long.
build is really coming along! Looks like your body work is going well. Looks like you probably did a better job with your rear panel than I did. Should look sharp!
And yes, I hear you about how tedious prep work is. I remember sitting in the garage, blocking for hours, and only getting a single panel done. Totally worth it though. And there is nothing like saying you did your own work!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 25 2009, 09:11 PM|
Funny though, the rear of the car isn't finished yet! I still need to fill in some very small dimples on just about every area where you can see the gold bondo. Honestly I've barely tackled any of the blocking portion, I've been lucky enough to have a dual action orbital sander running off my compressor! Really takes the pain out of the big work. Once I block it, its on like donkey kong with the high fill primer. Then more blocking... Then filling... Then blocking... Then paint! Great success! I still need to get some welting like Austin suggested for the ZG flares, impossible to source locally. I'll have to order some soon.
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Mar 25 2009, 09:16 PM|
|Is Austin still selling the mounting kits? I should have picked up a kit a while ago just to have...|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 25 2009, 09:37 PM|
Honestly I don't know if he still sells them. If http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=levine%27s+auto&near=Connecticut+06897&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&view=text&ei=bhTLScjFEYiwNrSHgUg&cd=2&sll=41.312440,-73.736002&sspn=0.615023,0.772333&latlng=41126823,-73422911,7693498442350465154 is a statewide chain, that's where I got mine. They had everything I needed in stock at the local store (allen head bolts, nutserts, self locking nuts (for the front) and a nutsert installation tool. Levine's kicks ass more than Autozone, Kragens, or even Napa. But it might just be a local chain. The parts are very simple to aquire though. The bolts/nuts can be found or ordered from any auto or h/w store or ordered online. Same with nutserts. The hardest to find will be the rubber welting, which I found here; http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360137833887&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=
If I read correctly, each flare needs about 4ft of welting, so you only need two 10ft rolls. The biggest, scariest part of this job by far is lining up the flares exactly, then drilling the holes and cutting out the excess metal. Finding the hardware is easy.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Mar 28 2009, 02:37 PM|
| I hope your car looks like the one in your signature, I love it. I would be excited too if my car was getting painted. Im to see some photo doctumentation, keep the updates coming!
Civics fly and MR2s run if I post pics on my build thread...I really need to get on that.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 30 2009, 12:45 PM|
| Patience... it will all be revealed soon enough, weather providing. Right now the car looks like a sanded-to-original-brown color of my signature pic, with the mirrors, spoiler and front lip removed. If I can hustle and prep the car right and fast, I may be painting tomorrow. But that's if I can get through ALL the sanding, the final areas that need filler to smooth, and a full wipe down with grease/wax remover. Oh, and I need to line one bay of the garage with plastic to make my spray booth. Its doable, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'd rather take a little extra time to get it right. But I'm also on a time constraint, everything needs to be done by next Monday, or my temporary registration will run out and I'll have to pay another stupid fee. I registered my car as a [insert-color-that-its-not] when I filled out the paperwork, so it needs to be painted before I bring it in for the VIN check.
But at least I don't have to deal with emissions...
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Mar 30 2009, 01:46 PM|
|Sounds good, do it right...not fast. As long as its painted by next monday its good? Thats sounds cool, take your time and you will be pleased with the outcome. We are all on stand-by here, I want to see this car finished!|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 30 2009, 03:03 PM|
Heh heh... Like I've said before, this car is never "finished". It just reaches stages where its at an acceptable state, lol.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 31 2009, 03:06 PM|
| Soon..... Its allllmost there...
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Mar 31 2009, 06:11 PM|
|lol Boba Fett paint the car it looks sad|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Mar 31 2009, 07:35 PM|
My thoughts exactly.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 1 2009, 04:39 PM|
| Lol at the Boba Fett costume! Painting it? Awesome! I love the no front bumber look though, showing off your massive intake filter. (Im a ricer )
What color are you painting it again?
Just a suggestion, I would aim your turn signal light (In the grill, or atleast where the grill should be) straight ahead, it would look better in my honest opinion.
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Apr 1 2009, 05:19 PM|
| The turn signals come that way stock. It actually looks better when everything is together.
Im excited to see the progress in the paint booth!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 2 2009, 04:38 AM|
Yeah, you have to look at it in person to really get the idea of how they look, the photos make them look a little funny. When the grill is installed, they line up with it perfectly. If I was feeling bolder, though, I would go purchase some pre-'74 turn signals and an airdam with the provisions for them. They look much better in my opinion.
These are pre-'74 style turn signals, molded into the airdam. Gives a cleaner look, but they're hard to find at a good price.
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Here's your only hint:
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Apr 2 2009, 02:11 PM|
|Umm red? the color of the University of Nebraska Omaha?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 2 2009, 02:46 PM|
I'm neither confirming or denying anything. You guys will have to wait (which could suck if it turns out like crap!
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 2 2009, 03:53 PM|
| I like the pre '74 turn signals aswell (Thanks for the mounting poition correction) but we have the same thing with post '94 taillights the entire light set-up usually goes for $600 by the time your finished!
The flag of Nebraska is blue and gold from what I remember. JDMMA70 has a good point to. But you will not comfirm it so we will have to wait!
|Posted by: 909*CT9A Apr 3 2009, 10:33 PM|
| to: Oddmanout
this is the first time ive even looked in this build thread
of yours & the fact that ur bringing this Z back...well pretty much from
DEATH, i think is awesome.
congrats on the pickup & i hope it all works out 4 you
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 5 2009, 01:05 PM|
| Not only is spraying a car one of the finer, more difficult skills you can tackle, the Z also happens to be one of the worst cars to pop your painting cherry on...
Next time, I'm doing something boxier...
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Apr 5 2009, 04:35 PM|
|so the color is on?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 5 2009, 05:26 PM|
Nope, nope. After several days of the weather not cooperating I've only been able to get the (high fill) primer on today, and I just spot puttied all the little imperfections I could find. I'll be blocking it in a half hour, then applying another coat of primer..... then, maybe a color coat. Depends on how the putty/blocking work out. If I'm satisfied I might shoot it, but only if it stays in the high 50's through the night. I'm pretty f*cked for weather tomorrow, just like most of this week its been on/off sunshine then the next day will be downpour. I may shoot it anyway, I've had no problems with moisture or fisheye out of the gun, only a couple runs where I got stupid, lol. God damn it, the compressor just turned on again, and my beverage was sitting on top, now its all over the floor.
With luck, I'll have enough practice by the time I get to color that I won't have to color sand it. I'm just glad I'm not shooting metallic colors, or this would be really painful for a first timer like myself. Oops, I've said too much....
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Apr 5 2009, 08:22 PM|
| Good luck dude!
One thing I remember when I was reading up on painting (Before I decided to have a shop do it), was how much of a difference shooting primer vs. color.
From what I remember, primer shoots a lot more thick than color, as I'm sure you're finding out...and it might be a good idea to do shoot a quick test panel with the color to get a feel for it. Just to avoid any runs or anything that might surprise you.
Then again, I have absolutely no actual experience with shooting either primer or color, so its just heresay.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 5 2009, 09:14 PM|
|Yeah, I have no doubts about that. You can even feel how much more mass the primer has, the can weighs what feels like twice as much as the color! As much as I hate adjusting the gun and test spraying when I have a limited amount of paint, I'll have to do it...|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 6 2009, 07:04 AM|
| So we know its not metallic!
Good luck to you, I would be afraid to try it myself. Sorry to hear about the weather, things are going the same way for me. Its been cold and dry, but now its warming up we have on and off rain.
Keep us posted.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 6 2009, 09:19 PM|
A motley collection of images. One is a drunk-shot, guess which one. Almost ready to spray the color coat!
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Ugh... the flash brings out the ugliness of the rear valence. Really though, running your hand across it and looking at it in person it feels STRAIGHT. Lets just hope the topcoat doesn't bring up the defects...
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 7 2009, 03:49 PM|
|The first one, Haha! What lip might that be, Im not too firmiliar with the S30 kits yet.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 7 2009, 06:13 PM|
Xenon polyurethane (rubberish substance, not fiberglass) airdam '75-'78 model, purchased from BlackDragon auto. I actually ordered it as a "mistake" at the beginning of the project, along with the performance ignition coilI really needed. All because there was a large amount of Killian's that I had to get rid of that day.
The best (and only so far) purchase under the influence I've ever made. Though I wish I ordered the earlier model and converted to 240Z style turn signals at this point...
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Apr 8 2009, 09:45 PM|
that you remember..... lol
|Posted by: AK-Z Apr 9 2009, 02:20 AM|
| You are ALOT further along that I .
I'm still waiting for it the warm up here and for the stupid volcano to stop shooting ash into the air
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 9 2009, 05:48 AM|
|You probably made tons of other purchases, and forgot.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 9 2009, 09:12 AM|
well... not in terms of performance... Most of my mods have been form over function so far.
Still need to: get wider wheels, engine swap, megasquirt ECU, all the fun turbo stuff, strut tower braces, new seats, new gauges, roll bar, reinstall/new sound system.... lots of stuff...
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Well, its painted... finally...
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 10 2009, 09:19 AM|
| Because I'm a perfectionist asshole though, I don't like the way it came out. For some reason last night EVERYTHING seemed to go wrong. No orange peel, No runs, I got good at avoiding that. I cleaned the surface of the car no less than 3 times after sanding it so I had no surface contamination fisheyes. But after laying the second coat and finding a THIRD god damn tiny insect that decided to land on the fresh paint, I got pissed. So pissed that my yell expelled the condensation inside my mask onto the surface where I just plucked the bug from. RRRAAAAAGGE!!!
The space I was working in was also much smaller than it looked, I was constantly trying to work around large immovable objects at the perimeter of the booth, just so I could maintain a proper spraying distance and angle. Some masking also decided to move on some areas, notably my front left tire so I got some overspray. The way the paint went down on the surface also angered me, until I read the label a bit closer and found out I'd have to sand it down after 24 hours... well, that's if I had 68 degrees Fahrenheit... its been over 12 hours and its still a bit tacky. The color also looks a little bit brighter than advertised.
For the most part though, it came out decent. The paint is even and I don't see any stripes. By my standards its still a 60/60 paint job though.
|Posted by: AK-Z Apr 10 2009, 10:30 AM|
|At least you are on paint right now. I still have to patch all the holes that I put into my car, relocate the filler for my fuel cell, tack the exhaust in, and weld everything up, before I can paint. I haven't really touched the engine. And then I have to find a way to fab a S14 gauge cluster into my s30 dash.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 10 2009, 10:45 AM|
Why not just buy a set of gauges and wire them into the car, keeping your S30 dash (unless its already gone)? Personally, its what I plan on doing a little ways down the road. The Speedhut reverse glow revolution gauges will look SWEET as replacements, especially since they look almost stock. Apparently its pretty easy to wire them in, some guy on Hybridz has a writeup. It certainly beats Autometer gauges, white or black faced.
[ Post merged on [mrgtm]1239409430[/mrgtm] ]
Since I can't wait and my car is such a camwhore, I'll post a pic even though I originally planned to wait until after all was done. As such, its not fully assembled yet. The paint is still a bit too tacky for my liking (wtf the drips on the can without the activator mixed in are completely dry!!) so I have only reinstalled a few things.
The hood needs to be stripped and repainted... but that's for another day (yes, it'll stay flat black). The paint is "Omaha Orange" no one got my hint of "Nebraska". It came out a bit lighter than what I thought it would be, but its close enough.
|Posted by: AK-Z Apr 10 2009, 04:26 PM|
fuel, temp, speedo, and tach all for $20.
I converted to a electronic speedo sender. And I don't see the point in paying $60+ per a gauge, when the stock ones work just fine.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 10 2009, 04:29 PM|
Very true, they're very pricey. I suppose all I'm really paying for is the looks, and the ability to get rid of my speedo cable, and have an programmable odometer that actually displays all my mileage.
|Posted by: SouthSideSlider Apr 10 2009, 05:21 PM|
|very nice looks like the old 432R paintjob very nice|
|Posted by: AK-Z Apr 10 2009, 05:42 PM|
I just took the 240sx spddeo sender off of the auto trans and glued it onto the speedo cable gear housing. A little more to it than that, but it only took me like 5 min
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 10 2009, 07:40 PM|
Yep, that was the idea!
For some reason it just seems like the "natural color" of the S30 (at least to me) even though orange isn't a favorite color of mine at all.
Now if only I could find a junkyard OS Giken head...
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Apr 11 2009, 12:01 AM|
| NICE!! Honestly I really like the color you chose.
And as for sanding it, I waited at least a week before I started wet-sanding. I still havn't done the actual body after 2 years....oops.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 11 2009, 02:18 PM|
The awesome orange and black color scheme! Yes! I love it!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 13 2009, 12:17 PM|
So I took these pictures a few days ago, right before I took off on a shakedown run. Possibly the worst day I could have picked due to rain and wetness, but I had to drive up a few hundred miles for the family Easter party and figured it would be a good time to run some seafoam through the oil system. I made it to the DMV and back, then 3 exits northbound on the freeway before I broke down. Felt like fuel starvation, but even though I knew my tank was low, the fuel light didn't come on till the car died. Luckily I was at the crest of a hill with an exit at the bottom so I coasted to the offramp. A good semeritan brought me a jerrycan of premium, then I tried starting again. That's when the exhaust detached itself from the headers. While working on refitting them (impossible, even with my mild lowering) I also noticed a line on my charcoal canister had broken off at its attachment point. This may have caused the fuel starvation, since the tank may have no longer had positive air pressure going to it. So unfortunately I had to get the Z towed home and returned to its natural environment; the garage. Both fixes should be easy, I just have to figure out a way to better support the exhaust on the frontal area, and if I can find some clamps that will fit around the 2 pipes exiting the headers that would probably help too....
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Apr 13 2009, 12:55 PM|
| car looks AWESOME! you should be really proud man!
sounds like you've become acquainted with the z car. I've been lucky to only have my car crap out on me about twice...once because I drove through a huge puddle...and the other I still don't know why.
anyway good luck with the fixes. Are you gonna keep the front 'open mouth' style? or put the grill back in? or bumper? just curious.
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Apr 13 2009, 03:55 PM|
| Awesome, now you just need the 432 motor to go along with it
The fixes are just what happens to projects, always the finishing touches
|Posted by: DOHC Apr 13 2009, 06:10 PM|
|i would have to say put the bumper back and possibly different wheels|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 13 2009, 07:44 PM|
huh... my last post didn't go through...
Bumpers are probably never going back on, but maybe fiberglass 240z bumpers. I'll think about it. I'm going to either install a mesh "ricer grill" painted flat black, possibly in combination with the stock slatted grill, or extend the stock grill so it goes down to the bottom of the lip. Wheels though, are my next purchase. Those stock 14's really have to go, and the replacements I get will be wider 16" with a more aggressive negative offset so they'll fill out the flares much better.
The car is far from finished, still needs a lot of tweaks and touchup. My exhaust and vacuum leak issues are solved for now, thanks to tightened clamps and duct tape around the vacuum line. I'd still like to add in another support though, for the front section just behind the headers. The interior is still really just slapped together, the passenger seat isn't even bolted down. I drove the car around for about an hour and a half today without any real issues. Lots of cabin noise, some panels still have to go back in, and a couple rattles. maybe I should lay down some dynomat. I should really reinstall the stereo and speakers too, lol. The exhaust note is pure music but I still like listening to my own tunes! Oh, and its really, really in need of new weatherseals.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Apr 14 2009, 01:04 PM|
|I agree, it looks badass in orange w/ the black flares and spoiler.|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Apr 15 2009, 07:54 AM|
| I love it dude, It looks great!
I would keep the front bumper the way it is, but I know you will get more agressive, larger wheels when funds allow it anyways.
I give you props, I would be so proud.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Apr 28 2009, 12:02 PM|
| So I broke down... again. This time I was able to fix it on the roadside with highway traffic flying by a few feet from my head. Electrical issues are still rampant I guess, as with other tweaks that need getting done. The exhaust almost popped off the headers again, so I stopped at the next Advance Auto store on the way to my gf's house and installed some better clamps (on BOTH pipes this time). That charcoal canister vacuum line is still only hanging on by some duct tape, which won't stay on forever. I'm wondering though if its the cause of my issues. The symptoms when its broken down are that the gas pedal just stops responding altogether, then the RPMs slowly drop to zero. The slow drop is because its been in gear both times, my memory is fuzzy, but I think once I hit the clutch pedal or put it in neutral the engine stopped spinning. I still have electrical power though, the engine just cranks and won't turn over. My guess is that fuel just cuts off, not spark, but there is no sputtering beforehand, its sudden. And its all very random too. The car performs like a champ otherwise.
So I'm going to be messing with relays again soon, its probably a bad ground (again) somewhere. I really need to put in some dynamat too, because its godaweful loud in the cabin (even if it does sound awesome) and the radio is impossible to hear. The seafoam's time is almost up in my oil too, so I'll be completing the treatment within the next hundred miles and dropping the oil pan/changing the oil/adjusting valve clearances. And I still need to buff out the paint! Ugh!!
This nice weather has gotten me a bit frisky too... I keep looking at the L28ET sitting there and thinking about how soon I should start the rebuild. Need MOAR power!!
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Apr 28 2009, 02:55 PM|
|Yeah sounds like a bad ground or bad connection. Could be a bad pump though, does it do it when it's warm or been driving a while, or will it do it when cold or run a few minutes only? Fuel pumps will cut out after certain amount of time running, or when it get hot outside (high ambient temps), or when worked hard for prolonged periods. The original pump in my GLHS would work fine while driving around normally, but put 5-10 mins on it in a mountain run, and it would crap out. Put in a Walbro 255, never had any more problem with it.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 4 2009, 10:29 AM|
So far its only been when the engine is warm. True, it could be the fuel pump, but my seatbelt warning buzzer also seems to cut out at the same time. Now, this would seem unrelated, until you see where the seatbelt warning timer relay is; bolted to the same bracket as the ignition relay. What I found when I took apart the stock ignition relay to troubleshoot is that it grounds itself through its metal casing, which is also directly in contact with the bracket, which is bolted to the chassis. So, if that's the case there must be some corrosion on the bracket or in between the relays causing a bad ground. I'm guessing that vibes while driving may be inducing a bad connection once in a while. But I need to get a new fuel pump ANYWAY when I swap in the turbo motor so I guess I'll find out in the long run!
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 4 2009, 02:09 PM|
| Im sorry to hear about the issues, I just hope its something as simple as a bad ground. With electrical issues, you never know just what it is. It may take some time, but follow the entire circuit around with a test light and see what you come up with!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 4 2009, 03:03 PM|
Been there, done that, over 9000 times. The Z has her share of gremlins.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 4 2009, 03:12 PM|
That is why I've replaced half the car all together
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 4 2009, 04:55 PM|
| Under the knife again, but not because she's broke. Thankfully its my choosing.
I put enough miles on the seafoam treated oil so now its time to change it. While I'm at it, I'm removing the sump to de-rust and paint, replace the gasket, install a new valve cover gasket, and adjust the valve clearances (if needed).
As you can see in the background of the second pic the VHT didn't hold up too well on my headers. I'm thinking I just didn't prep the surface correctly, I don't think I'm running hot and lean.
The white pasty filth on the sump isn't because I had way too much fun removing it, that's just engine degreaser. Now here's your chance; I'm having a hard time deciding what color ceramic paint I'm going to use on the sump, so I'm holding a little social experiment so anyone with interest can "vote". Choices are either blue, orange, or I could put WAY too much effort into painting something no one will ever see and make it orange/black to match my valve cover. Straight black is just too boring.
Unfortunately I also found some presents in the sump when I cleaned it out;
Now, if this were a helicopter, you better believe that the engine would be written off as compromised, but I'm hoping the standards for a 30 year old car are somewhat less strict. Not shown are a couple sort, hair sized slivers of metal. The largest piece you see there is interesting. Its about the size of a dime and is stamped "3M". I don't think there's any sort of space age duct tape wedged in there, but I'm completely dumbfounded as to what 3M product could have possibly been in my engine.
Everything seemed to be pretty non-magnetic, but metallic. I'll be checking for play while I'm down there, but hopefully I don't need new bearings. I'd like to put as little money as possible into this engine from now on, as I'm focusing on the turbo motor.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 4 2009, 10:32 PM|
| the smaller pieces wouldn't concern me much, because those are just excess casting imperfections. But the big piece would . Is that big piece just part of the pan gasket?
Well you know now that no one has ever touched the engine internals
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 4 2009, 11:07 PM|
| I had a friend who's S30 would shut down at random times when it was warm. His issue was the ECU harness, happened to be a little loose. Some dielectric grease and re-attaching it seemed to work. BUT it is old school bosch fuel injection, so that could be an issue right there.
I'd say check electrical connections everywhere. 30 years doesnt do good things to wiring.
that big piece says 3M on it, so it might be part of a cutting disc, or a peice of circular sand paper
|Posted by: Nomake Wan May 5 2009, 01:27 AM|
| Agreed on the connections bit. Have you had a go at the EFI Bible yet? It's the most detailed piece of material there is when it comes to diagnosing issues with the EFI system in the L-series motors. Definitely give it a look if you haven't already.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 5 2009, 08:20 AM|
Lol, DEFINITELY! I think if you added up the amount of time I've spent on that and a printed out '78 FSM you'd have time measured in days, not hours. The combination of those two manuals are probably what finally got me to track down my original problem to the ignition relay (the car wouldn't start for the longest time at the project's beginning). The only other relay on that bracket that hasn't acted up at one point or another is the wiper relay. The horn miraculously started working the other day (its been broken since 5 years ago), although it sounds terrible. I didn't touch any part of its circuit, just the ign relay which is on the same bracket. The defroster is also broken and the seatbelt warning sound cuts in and out. Relays for all these systems are on the same bracket.
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I've never doubted that, lol. I think I'm the only person who's ever shown this car any love.
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Its possible, however it would certainly make for a very small disc (which I think I have seen in stores before). The side with the 3M label is smooth, but the other side has a cross hatch pattern imprinted on it, leaving me to believe that it used to be stuck to some sort of fabric at one point.
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I should try plugging in the original computer again. I bought a spare one off ebay for $20 which is running the car right now, but now I'm curious as to see if my old computer was really kaput. I replaced it and the ignition relay and the distributor at the same time, so I really caused a little mystery for myself.
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"Polls" for the oil sump color close tonight at 11pm EST when the rust treatment is complete, in case anyone cares.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 6 2009, 12:53 AM|
| don't care on color lol .
fuel pump should be easy to mess with, 280z had an external pump in front of the diff, if you haven't looked too much down there
if the ECU is just getting a bad sensor reading (due to bad sensor(s), or bad connections), then it would just run the engine in limp mode (running rich )
Did you check for spark, could bad plugs, worn cap, or failing coil.
Just trying to narrow it down for ya, when you get it back together
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 6 2009, 07:54 AM|
| As AK-Z said, check the entire ignition system. The coil, distributor and car and wires could be worn/bad.
I would also check the ECU ground(s) for corrosion.
That gaint '3M' piece isnt pretty either, I vote black >.<
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 6 2009, 08:04 AM|
|Too late! I arbitrarily decided last night that my differential was getting lonely being the only orange part under the car and thus so is the oil sump!|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 7 2009, 04:00 AM|
LOL, your differential case is orange? Tangy.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 7 2009, 07:17 AM|
Its a pumpkin, get it?
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You're right. Looks like I found the problem. I unplugged my ECU so I could use a push button to position the engine for valve clearances. After all was said and done the Z would not start again. GRRR! Looking at the harness end that plugs into the ECU, a few pin holes have bent connectors. Holding the harness at an angle made the car start again. Tilted it slightly and the car sputtered and died. Don't know how the f*ck I'm going to fix those little pins in there, dielectric grease will just screw it up by limiting conductivity even more.
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Fixed. Turned out I had a pick just small enough to bend the few wayward tabs back into place. Then I took the Z for a spin. A little hesitation in the lower RPMs is gone, and strangely all my valve clearances seemed to be within limits...
|Posted by: JDMMA70 May 7 2009, 05:41 PM|
| holy block casting bat man
that block looks stout, i need to get my hand on a L28 to play around with which block has the thickest and strongest cast? the n42?
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 7 2009, 07:08 PM|
bwahahahaha, score another one for the Z Demon.
Good to hear you managed to get her moving again.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 7 2009, 07:27 PM|
|would of been easy enough to just use needle nose pliers for the pins|
|Posted by: PanzerAce May 8 2009, 12:06 AM|
Both are more than strong enough stock, but if you want to over bore you might as well get the N42.
And on a semi related Z note: it's amazing what a set of fresh plugs can do for your engine. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the bad ones (in a diff thread)...
|Posted by: <MB> May 8 2009, 01:54 AM|
| Never ventured much into the Automotive thread as my knowledge is so lacking in comparison to you all here.
But oddmanout84, i just want to say that this Z is an inspiration to all young Z lovers (like me) out there
And i must say i thought i would never like a Z in orange but you have proven me wrong =)
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 8 2009, 07:26 AM|
She is indeed a pretty car.
It's amazing how nice and how aggressive you can make an S30 look without having to do a whole lot to it.
I greatly miss having the 'ol DemonZ all together, she was pretty too
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 8 2009, 08:22 AM|
Dude, don't worry about that, only way to learn is to ask right? While we have our occasional..errm...heated debates no one here is opposed to helping someone learn more about cars.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 8 2009, 09:37 AM|
lol, no doubt there
|Posted by: DOHC May 8 2009, 04:49 PM|
|like the debate of stuffing a ls1 in a 280z lol =)|
|Posted by: damanwitdaMZR May 8 2009, 07:21 PM|
| i don't know much about Nissan electrical systems, but if it uses a Jetronic, your ECU, should be fine, your electrical gremlins, could come from a defective alternator, i came across this particular problem with Toyota's 1MZ-FE with VVT.
the alternator was damaged and produced AC current, instead of DC. symptoms are: flickering lights, misfiring, battery dead even after a good recharge, and fuses that keep burning up.
thank god you don't have a regina system, trust me, you would have commited suicide by now....
I HATE REGINA ECUs
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 8 2009, 10:54 PM|
Nope, its definitely the ECU plug, determined 100% today... when I broke down again. I was furious, because I would have to wedge something in between the plug and the wall to keep it at "the right angle", and somehow it still worked itself loose. So I removed the one screw holding the cover on the plug and exposed the back of the plug where the wires go in to the terminal end. because it was supported by ONE f*cking screw, and because the wires had been softened at the end from being plugged/unplugged a bunch of times, the actual plug was not seating right, and going on loosely at an angle. Chalk it up to another case of Nissan half-assing things (J and BMWneo, eat your heart out). With the cover off, I'm able to fully press the plug into place.
However, as I learned on the way back from my gf's house after midnight, because the cover is off the plug it has no way to retain itself to the ECU and will eventually work its way off due to running vibrations. Its kind of funny, on the highway the car began to sputter a few times and all I had to do was lean forward and push firmly on the plug and the sputtering would stop. What a pain, I hate this f*cking thing. Can't wait to install megasquirt.
On a side note I also stopped by a Napa Auto today that actually had a set of old NGK sparkplugs in stock, much better than the champions I was running. However, I'm still a bit miffed about my performance. My car has absolutely no balls below 2500rpm, especially accelerating from a stop. I blame the headers.
|Posted by: damanwitdaMZR May 8 2009, 11:28 PM|
|hmmm... try checking your fuel calibration, also replacing your coil pack is a good idea. i had the same problem with Ford's Cosworth V6, that thing needed to be revved to get power. not enough fuel or too much, bad spark is the main cause of no power at the bottom end. headers have nothing to do with it unless it doesn't start nicely, because that means you don't have backpressure|
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 9 2009, 12:35 AM|
bwahahahahahahaha, Demon Z strikes again.
The S30's run an early Bosch Fuel Injection btw.
Unplug your TPS, leave it unplugged and tell me how it runs. Low end, Better or worse? High end, better, worse or no change?
(If it runs a hell of a lot worse at idle or in low end, then stop and plug it back in)
BTW, Zip ties for the ECU/Main harness conection.
P.S. I have yet to consult the 800 page FSM, but I will depending on the results of the disconnected TPS
|Posted by: Nomake Wan May 9 2009, 01:37 AM|
Trust me on this one, since I know them personally... they realize 100% that Nissan half-asses shit. Ask them sometime about how FUN the R32 has been.
Interesting, though... I've been having some random bogging things going on with my 280Z, too. We figured it was bad injector clips because pushing on them seemed to help. Guess I should check the ECU connector as well just in case.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 9 2009, 01:58 AM|
| 280Z/ZX ECU were made by Hitachi IIRC. they changed to Mitsubishi components, I think in the 300zx or the 240sx .
Well while you are dealing with the Z's temper tantrums, you can gather parts to do a 300zx efi system conversion on the L28
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 9 2009, 09:00 AM|
Coilpack LOLWUT. I wish I had coilpacks!
Well I did get a new coil near the beginning of the project, its a Crane Cams Fireball. It doesn't look like it would be the problem and I still have a pretty good spark going, though if anything the bottleneck is at my spark plug wires now, they're a bit on the cheap side. The reason I've been blaming the headers is because they're attached to a free-flowing exhaust with glasspacks. My back pressure has been reduced IMMENSELY with the removal of the smaller stock 1.5" piping + muffler + cat. Headers are almost supposed to narrow your power band in most cases, but I'll be trying some other things before I give up.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 9 2009, 10:39 AM|
I feel as though I have been ignored.
So I will restate my earlier comment.
Yes, I was right about the ECU plug.
Now, for the low end problem.
Unplug your TPS, leave it unplugged and tell me how it runs. Low end, Better or worse? High end, better, worse or no change?
(If it runs a hell of a lot worse at idle or in low end, then stop and plug it back in)
DONT BLAME THE EXHAUST.
It's not the problem.
I had the 3-2-1 header into the twice pipes on an L24, and had KILLER low end power still.
Follow my directions at the of this post and let me know what happens.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 9 2009, 10:46 AM|
No, you haven't been ignored. I just got back up from testing the TPS. No change at idle, but the engine doen't like to rev beyond idle, very rough.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 9 2009, 10:54 AM|
hmmm... That sometimes works.... but since it didnt, I'm gonna have to go dig out the FSM later tonight and start looking at some things.
I'm 75% certain it's still wiring
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 9 2009, 11:08 AM|
Yeah, I was pretty sure at most I could have installed the TPS at the wrong angle, but double checking proves otherwise. It tested good on circuit checks a while back as well. So maybe....
1. I could try advancing the timing on the distributor, it should be set at 0 degrees now.
2. The fuel pump is OEM and old, could trying installing a Walbro sooner rather than later.
3. EGR is gone, btw, and the hole is sealed via gasketed blockoff plate that I made.
4. My injectors are old.
5. My clutch is old... but it doesn't feel like its slipping.
I could also try installing the ECU the car came with, maybe this "new" one I've been running sucks.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 9 2009, 01:17 PM|
| I say check your AFM. About 60% of the electrical problems I've had working on most of the S30 in alaska have been a connection problem with the AFM.
The AFM, TPS and O2 sensors are really the only sensors the ECU actually reads.
Coil pack? whats that.... lol
L24, L26, L28E the spark was controlled mechanically controlled, separate from the ECU. The L28ET (version 2) Was when they actually started doing spark control from the ECU. Even then, they didn't go to coil pack system.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 9 2009, 02:26 PM|
|Maybe check the injector plugs for corrosion. I just fixed a dead miss on my buddy's Shelby Lancer that was due to that green looking corrosion that sometimes builds up on them. Also, his dad had similar seemingly fuel problems on his SRT, turned out to be the connections at both the computer and the injectors.|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 9 2009, 03:43 PM|
|whatever the case... WIRE BRUSH lol|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 9 2009, 09:20 PM|
Checked it multiple times, even cracked it open to fix a flab binding issue. Electrically sound.
|Posted by: DOHC May 9 2009, 10:19 PM|
| Well how about some emotional support would that work
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 9 2009, 11:23 PM|
Swap the ECU's and recheck the pins when you do.
Also, set her to about 5-10 degrees advanced if the ECU doesnt seem to make a difference.
My best diagnosis's are usually done in person, and require hearing, smelling, feeling (and occasionally tasting)
How does she smell when she's idling? a little rich?
If it was a fuel pump issue, I'd be expecting more high end problems rather than low end... But I could see either injectors periodically sticking open, or a worn out Fuel pressure regulator causing the problem if it winds up not being electrical.
If it was a clutch, you'd feel slippage in 4th.
The reason I told you to disconnect the TPS is semi complicated, but we have a few S30's here that are semi built NA motors which actually run better when the TPS is not connected. I wanted to see if your TPS was confusing the ECU.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 10 2009, 12:44 AM|
| Have you tried checking the rotor and cap? and also the coil (not pack lol).
does it stall out or just dies? symptoms?
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 10 2009, 06:48 AM|
Oh, no. The stalling/dying problem was fixed (sort of, or at least the source was discovered), it was a loose fitting ECU plug.
So far the lack of power issue hasn't caused me to stall out at all, its just that especially from a stop, when the car is below 2500rpm the engine has no get up and go. No matter how hard you stomp on the gas with the car in gear, the car feels like it just doesn't want to accelerate. Even if I rev the engine before getting off the clutch. But once you get to 2500 its like VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO and the engine screams to life, rocketing to the redline. Its not the brakes dragging, because I can push the car with the ebrake disengaged. And when the clutch is out, or the car is in neutral, the engine has no problems revving at all. its just like at the lower rpms I feel like I have absolutely NO torque.
I don't think the car's running lean, I've had no problems with temps and even at high RPM I don't have any pinging. The only thing that bothers me is that the headers orange VHT paint too almost no time to burn white and start flaking off, but I think that might be that I didn't prep the surface enough. If anything it might be running a bit rich, although its not so bad as to cause any visible smoke (it was at one point, last year). The crackle/popping sound while engine braking should just be a normal thing for the headers.
I'll try advancing the timing, but probably not today since its mother's day and writing this is all I really have time for.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 10 2009, 06:55 AM|
|Yeah sounds like it needs more timing, not enough definitely makes an engine lazy.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 10 2009, 06:59 AM|
| derp derp.... manual says 10 degrees BTDC... mine's at 0...
EDIT: make that about 5 degrees, now that I have a flashlight to see the marks better.
EDIT: I'm really just eye-gauging it. I should really just grab myself a timing light and do it right.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 10 2009, 09:34 AM|
|have you tried messing with the adjustment screw (I forgot it is was on the AFM or the throttle body. haven't worked on my engines in like a year ) to raise idle RPM?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 10 2009, 11:02 AM|
I'll be messing with it in conjunction with the distributor and timing light later so I can do it right. But since the car's been running I really haven't found the need until now. The Z idles at about 800rpm on its own, where it should be.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 10 2009, 04:07 PM|
| Then I am lost as to what to look at next at the moment .
BTW, you removing the EGR shouldn't affect anything really. Hell, one of my L28 didn't come with one stock (FED model
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 11 2009, 03:13 AM|
LOL dude you can't set timing w/ a flashlight and guesswork, come on man
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 11 2009, 09:04 AM|
well since I hadn't messed with any of the settings before (except R&R the dizzy), I figured I was still on the money. And according to the timing light, I was.
EDIT: ^ in terms of my adjustment that I made yesterday without the light, my initial setting of 0 degrees was a super retard feat of ignorance.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 11 2009, 05:04 PM|
|Cool, so did advancing it help low end any?|
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 11 2009, 09:22 PM|
Based on his previous statement, I would venture to guess that it probably did.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 12 2009, 08:24 AM|
The difference in performance is unimaginable. I can't believe I was so stupid as to overlook the ignition timing like that, let alone setting it to 0 instead of 10 like in the book.
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add to that, I'm hearing less popping in the exhaust (less unburned fuel), and should be getting much better fuel economy. There are no words that can describe my embarrassment for this oversight. WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So checking off the things accomplished yesterday/today: fixed spark timing issue, zip-tied ECU (original ECU reinstalled, works), ordered some sound deadening mat, ordered a new engine/tranny backplate (my bottom half is gone, exposed flywheel).
I also have the buffer ready to rub out the paint job, but I think I'll wait until I get finished with my trim... Next on the agenda; need new window channel rubber and door weatherstrip, rear hatch weatherstrip, MOAR plastic rivets to reinstall the interior trim... then I dunno.
install my short throw shifter that gathering dust?
or should I start dumping $$ into the turbo motor...
So much to do, so much time, so little money...
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 12 2009, 01:21 PM|
|Hehe, don't worry man, we've all (well, all who've worked on our own cars long enough ) had our facepalm moments.|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 12 2009, 01:54 PM|
| I still have the sticker on my hood that still reminds me lol
But doesn't apply to me anymore because of my motor swap
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 12 2009, 02:09 PM|
|Damn it, now I'm in the mood to buy more horsepower gaining, track time shaving, wallet draining performance modifications all over again.|
|Posted by: Nomake Wan May 12 2009, 02:11 PM|
Are you getting crazy body roll like my Z is? If so, I'd totally vote this. If not, wheels/tires. Then dump money into that turbo motor. Short-throw shifters are always optional in my opinion, as I've only driven cars with relatively long shifts. Doesn't bug me any.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 12 2009, 02:53 PM|
Nothing insane in terms of roll... but I like a tight car so there are plans for strut bars down the road. And yes, these 14" rims and balloon-like tires are pretty squishy. I already have the short throw shifter, which is why I mentioned it. Only thing holding me back is that I have to do some tedious grinding of the ears on the tranny to install it, but most of all the threading is different/thicker than my current shift knob. I like my shift knob, and the one that came with the short throw is geh looking and doesn't feel right.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 12 2009, 03:02 PM|
body flex, body roll?
Strut bars will help with flex, sways bars for roll
|Posted by: Nomake Wan May 12 2009, 03:05 PM|
Sorry, I always get them mixed up. My bad, my bad.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 12 2009, 04:18 PM|
| Glad to hear it was fixed! We have all had the stupid moments! I would for for suspension and wheels/tires first. Then focus on the motor after your body and chassis is prepared for it.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 12 2009, 04:23 PM|
I certainly can agree with that, although engine parts tend to have more of an air of excitement to them.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 12 2009, 04:30 PM|
Of course, because we all love speed. A gain in acceleration is more noticable then a gain in corner exit speed.
And you know your car is simply 'faster' in broad terms.
|Posted by: DOHC May 12 2009, 08:17 PM|
|Well the car has been bended like a twizzler for its age. I say making the car at least a reliable daily driver instead of sitting for a "project car" before venturing even further.|
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 12 2009, 11:52 PM|
What? The car may have a little bit of a rigidity problem, but no more or less than any other Z.
From all his shots, I didnt notice anything unusual, no folds or rust that would cause any problems.
No good reasons I've seen to even consider shelving the plans for this car.
Oddmanout, if you haven't already done poly bushings, do it.
Get more stopping power before you go turbo. I saw your rear brake conversion, it's a good idea, but the main benifit is for prolonged braking and heat issues rather than stopping power. I did it on the DemonZ too.
If you havent already, grab a pair of 85 Toyota Pickup or 4Runner, 4 piston calipers(make sure it's the 85 or older 4 piston, the 4 piston from 86 and newer is built for vented rotors and will not work) and a 280ZX 15/16ths master cylinder to take up the slop in the pedal the 4 piston calipers will cause.
They are direct bolt ons. You will have to cut the dust shield a bit as the 4 piston caliper is much larger
Literally twice the surface area on the pads. much better stopping power.
After you know you can stop. Then go on with the turbo motor.
For shits and giggles, my old rear disc conversion:
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 13 2009, 04:40 AM|
Heh, overhauling the suspension was the first thing I did to this car. Everything is poly except the front swaybar and I perforated the inner T/C rod bushing to make it softer (no sense using the old rubber, it was too far gone).
I've been thinking about what to do with the front brakes for a long time, and I've considered the 4x4 calipers. I also wanted to slap on bigger vented rotors or something too, so I was holding out for the Wilwood kit. Even so, the front brakes seem to be fine for stopping the car, despite the horrendous SCREEEEECH they make when stopping. The PO who installed the pads must have contaminated them, or didn't break them in right. I tried spraying brake quiet on the caliper side of the pads when I took the calipers off, but that didn't help at all. Go figure the rear brakes I installed don't make a sound (big surprise there!!). Dust shields aren't a problem, by the way. I removed those a long while ago. I didn't know that the 4x4 caliper swap was for heat though, that's interesting.
|Posted by: TexasDemonZ May 13 2009, 11:15 PM|
Actually I was talking about the rear disc conversion when I mentioned the heat issues. Drum brakes actually grab much better, but fail when they start getting hot, and they get a lot hotter a lot faster.
The rear discs are better for extreme braking applications such as AutoXing and racing, but really dont offer much of a difference when it comes to stopping power.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 14 2009, 05:01 AM|
| To add to this-
drums are made of aluminum which looses rigidity when heated. that is why on the Z32, they used aluminum calipers and then switched to the steel versions in the later model Z32.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 14 2009, 08:29 AM|
Oh, I see. To be honest, I "guessed" that disc brakes were more efficient/effective and maybe had more stopping power. But the reasons I did the conversion were mostly because I hate working on drum brakes, and similar to what AK-Z said. When I removed the drums to unsieze the wheels last September, I hated how flimsy they felt, and how easy it was to make a mistake and get them out of round. Really though, no matter what you have on the rear, its only about 25% of your stopping power at the most.
Disc brakes look sexier too.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 14 2009, 01:31 PM|
| Actually drums are more efficient as far as stopping the wheels, but you are more likely to lock up the wheels. And everyone knows what will happen when you lock up the wheels at speed. And as heat raises, efficiency decreases.
brake shoes have alot more grabbing surface area than brake pads do. because of the properties of aluminum, no one really makes any performance brake shoes for anything any more .
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 16 2009, 04:18 PM|
|I'm really crossing my fingers on this latest install... I DO NOT WANT to put a resonator on my exhaust... But f*ck its loud.|
|Posted by: DOHC May 16 2009, 07:09 PM|
|aww i condone loud at a certain degreelol|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 18 2009, 04:53 AM|
|It depends on how loud it is, if its really obnoxious (Spelling?) and doesnt sound good at all, then I would install a resonator in the exhaust. If it sounds great but its really just that loud, then I wouldnt worry about it, unless the police will try to get a repair order on your car.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 18 2009, 07:58 AM|
It sounds AWESOME. Don't want to change the note. But rev anywhere past idle and he can't hear anything above the drone inside the cabin. Radio? Forget it. Even with upgraded speakers I can't hear a thing. At highway speeds you should wear earplugs because the resonance at 3000rpm (80mph) is a killer. And my gf refuses to ride in the car because of it!
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 18 2009, 08:13 AM|
|Then I wouldnt touch it! (Unless a cop tells you to) and it sounds like you need a girlfriend who love cars as much as you do!|
|Posted by: Apex Carver May 18 2009, 01:37 PM|
|This is a nice thread, keep up the updates.|
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 18 2009, 08:13 PM|
Ahh, tell her to quit being a pus... errr, tell her to cowboy up..err... hmmm... yeah that's just not gonna work, sorry dude
|Posted by: DOHC May 18 2009, 08:19 PM|
|Being one who uses a l28et.. it is dam loud lol especially mid 3k+ and i occasionally hear the turbo spooling up since the lag is loooong...Its worse when the tops are off i hear the car more then the wind itself.|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 18 2009, 09:02 PM|
|the engine itself is already loud, straight pipe, just adds to the fun|
|Posted by: DOHC May 18 2009, 09:07 PM|
|Sounds nice either revving up or down... especially in tunnels =)|
|Posted by: Nomake Wan May 18 2009, 09:17 PM|
Dammit, I need a turbo. My L28E sounds like a frickin truck.
|Posted by: DOHC May 18 2009, 09:22 PM|
|Well dont expect much from a l28et stock that thing has the worst turbo lag lololololo but when it does then the turbo.....kicks in...|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 21 2009, 07:02 AM|
Nah. She's stuck with me for over a year, and the last 8 months of this project are a testament to her patience. I've paid more attention to the car than her, and for some strange reason, she still loves me. She likes driving fast too. So, she's a keeper!
UPDATE: I'm STILL putting in the sound mat, its a pain. Still incredibly tedious. Good thing is the only major section I have left is the passenger floor, and I still have almost a full roll of mat left!! 100sq ft is definitely more than enough for one layer. Bad news; my friend's younger brother showed me Far Cry 2 the other day and now I'm addicted. Uh oh...
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 24 2009, 06:03 PM|
|So how is the car doing thus far? Im sure you've been driving it more, right?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 25 2009, 09:59 AM|
Nope, its been in pieces, interior-wise. Haven't driven it in over a week. Nice thing is that its nearly finished, and although I have not been able to really test it by driving, my latest efforts were successful. That Fatmat stuff works REALLY well. I covered almost everything in a single layer (80 mil thick) and running the engine/revving has been dramatically muted inside the cabin. I still have over half a roll left too, so I might add a double layer in a couple areas. Maybe now the gf will like riding in it and I'll actually be able to hear my stereo!
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 25 2009, 11:51 AM|
|How much was that stuff?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 25 2009, 12:31 PM|
The stuff is called Fatmat Rattletrap. $119 (+shipping) on ebay for two rolls of 33.5"x18" (just over 100sq ft). Fatmat Xtreme was a bit cheaper, but I decided to get the thicker stuff. It is a bit thicker than regular fatmat at 80mil. So far its one of the best deals for sound deadening I've seen, even if it is asphalt base instead of butyl. People say asphalt based mat will make your interior smell like fresh road on a hot day, but so far I have not been able to smell anything unless I put my nose right next to it.
Looks like they also restructured some of their prices too so you might be able to get a better deal than I did.
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I had a bit of buyer's remorse after getting these things a long while ago, but test fitting them again tells me they'll still make the look of the car. I just need to adjust then paint the mounting brackets. I might even be able to pull off using Sylvania silverstars or something, since the smoked plexiglass really isn't that hard for light to punch through. At the very least, it'll help my aerodynamics by a small margin and keep me from digging bugs from the space between the headlight and the sugar scoops.
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Installed the short throw shifter. The difference is retarded. If I were strong enough, I could hit every gear by shifting with my pinkie, its that short. Here's a comparison of the levers, stock is on the left.
Only thing that sucks is that I can't use my old shift knob because of the thicker threading.
|Posted by: Torque May 26 2009, 07:48 AM|
|nice z man, never would have thought orange would work so well with it|
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 26 2009, 10:20 AM|
|How does that shifter install? I guess I'm not seeing how the longer end fits in the same place as the stocker.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 26 2009, 12:20 PM|
A special bracket, fits on top of the original pivot point on the tranny and raises the new pivot point higher.
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I have to learn how to drive again, this shifter is insane. No clue where my gears are anymore.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 26 2009, 05:59 PM|
|Ahh, I thought so. Cool.|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 26 2009, 10:21 PM|
|Eh. I made my short shifter some odd years ago in my welding class. Too bad I'm no longer using that tranny|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 27 2009, 05:06 AM|
|well I've recently been thinking more and more (after I had bought the shifter) that when this tranny goes I'm converting to a Z32 tranny, so I might as well get some use out of this one. Hopefully it still has plenty of life in it, but it does grind when going from 2nd to 3rd at high rpm. My girl's Mazda Protege does the same thing, and I remember my 3000GT started doing that a little while before 5th gear exploded. Changing synchros and transmission work is not something I want to think about right now.|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 27 2009, 03:45 PM|
supposedly, the 280zxt borg warner tranny and the (NA & turbo) Z31 borgwarner tranny are weaker than the NA 280z nissan 5 speed. So go with the nissan z32 tranny. Either NA or TT trannies, the difference between the 2 is the gearing apparently. Oh and you're going to has to get an adaptor plate for it, and a custom drive shaft.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 27 2009, 07:26 PM|
Yup, got the idea from big-phil's videos.
|Posted by: wagpo May 28 2009, 07:49 AM|
|goodluck on your z dude bookmarking it|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 28 2009, 10:55 AM|
I'll need it. I can't figure out how to remove the stainless trim without damaging it, which is making my next mini project much more difficult than it should be.
|Posted by: DOHC May 28 2009, 04:21 PM|
|From what area?|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 28 2009, 04:59 PM|
which part? the gutters?
I just used a very flat piece of wood and a wide flat head screw driver. Prop the wood on part of the roof and slowly pry the trim.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 28 2009, 05:32 PM|
Too late now though, lol.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 29 2009, 02:14 AM|
| I love the headlight covers! Did you get used to the new short throw yet?
Who needs to hear the stereo? Seriously. Maybe its just me, but I love to hear the cabin fill with the scream of my car (And open wastegate) when pulling through gears.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 29 2009, 02:58 AM|
| That's only cause you hear it so rarely
Lol sorry man, couldn't help it.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 29 2009, 07:14 AM|
Ha ha, that's messed up but there is some truth to it. After a while it just loses its charm, especially when passengers refuse to ride because of it.
Look at the previous posts, I did use the shifter a couple times and I need to practice with the car again to get it right. Its thrown me completely off. VERY short throw.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S May 29 2009, 07:38 AM|
Ouch, that was a burn...but a good one none the less.
I dont have a comeback...
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 29 2009, 11:30 AM|
| My girlfriend said she prefers riding on my HARLEY to my Z because its "easier on the ears". That thing has drag pipes that have NO baffles and are slash cut before the rear tire!! Seriously, if I ride on that thing without earplugs my ears are ringing for hours afterwords. Full face helmet or not.
Honestly, I have no clue what she's talking about.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 29 2009, 02:56 PM|
Yeah, I don't really like those super short throw shifters. The Pro 5.0 shifter for Mustangs is like that, stiff and so close together it's really hard to tell what gear you're going in w/o concentration. I like the Hurst shifter much better on those, shorter throw yet long enough to tell where it's going easily, and tighter/stronger than stock shifters.
|Posted by: AK-Z May 29 2009, 05:04 PM|
|I say, why just go with a short shifter? Just go all out and go sequential|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 29 2009, 05:22 PM|
|Waiting for paint to dry is like watching Nascar...|
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 29 2009, 06:41 PM|
Lol, why not, it's only like, oh, 4k-7k dollars more
|Posted by: AK-Z May 29 2009, 09:52 PM|
you know they sell kits that convert your electronically controlled auto trans into a sequential or paddle shift. Would need a trans cooler though.
Hey, why not get a z33 auto trans? It has the dummy shift system anyway.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 30 2009, 01:47 AM|
|Nah, I want the Z34 tranny that automatically blips the throttle when I downshift. THAT'S cool! You know the world is really turning lazy when they invent something like that.|
|Posted by: AK-Z May 30 2009, 03:23 AM|
The ECU does that, not the transmission.
If you really want that, get a strong enough servo and build a electronically controlled clamp. have it so it holds the throttle linkage when you press the clutch peddle. And build a timer circuit that holds it for 2-3 sec (fairly easy to build) and automatically release the clamp.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 30 2009, 04:00 AM|
| This. Is going to take. All. Damn. Day.
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Ow, dammit. Ow.
|Posted by: peemyTNBow May 30 2009, 08:04 AM|
Except for the last 10 laps.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar May 30 2009, 09:53 AM|
Still an auto though. I guess when I hear sequential trans, I think of rally-type manuals that ratchet shifters that you just slap forward or backward.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 30 2009, 09:59 AM|
| It'll be a cold day in hell before I paint a car again...
maybe its just the 4 hours of sleep getting to me though...
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So, I think this new Lime-Green molding I just installed really brings out the orange and black scheme of the Z. It is a bit hard to open the doors now though...
So here's a couple of the newest tools I have at my disposal for my ongoing efforts to destroy the look of my car;
... and to my surprise, its actually WORKING. So far... I haven't burned through any paint yet with the buffer, just on one of the cowl panels which are really in need of new paint ANYWAY. The shine may still look like crap now, but for the first time I can actually see objects clearly reflected in my car's finish (instead of amorphous color blobs). And I'm still working with the rubbing compound. OOOooooo, I can't wait to put the sealing glaze on, then wax on top of that!!
BTW, if no one noticed yet, I also painted all the stainless trim on the car flat black. I think it fits better with the overall look.
And I may have some more surprises in store at the end of the weekend. Who knows... Might have to do with some certain round objects...
... NOT anal beads, you sick f*cks!!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 May 31 2009, 10:26 PM|
| Well, looks like I probably won't be getting those "round objects" after all. Today I met up with a member from our local Z club and talked with him for hours. He's a good guy, and has TONS of parts in his garage, including an RB25DET, race-built L28ET, tools galore... And a whole storage shed full of wheels and tires. A good third of those wheels are Watanabes..... And his 260Z is a triple webbered beast, man is it LOUD! It literally deafened all three of us for a minute after he revved it!
Too bad, cause all the Wats he has are 15" and below and most have a high positive offset. There was one pair of 16" RS8's that would be great but it looks like he's hesitant to give them up for much less than top dollar. All the R-Types he had were 13" if I remember correctly. Much too small to fit over my brakes.
Oh well, we'll probably be hanging out pretty often cause we both have Z's to work on, plenty of spare parts and a love of beer!
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 1 2009, 05:53 AM|
| Isnt it nice meeting other enthusiets with the same car?
The closest I get to a MR2 enthusiest around here are owners with N/A SW20s that have body kits, painted stock wheels, chopped springs and a ridculously large exhaust for a natrually aspirated car.
The round objects werent anal beads...they were rims!
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 1 2009, 07:27 AM|
Heh. I know what you mean, to a degree. This guy is unique in that his ideas on what to do with his Z fall in a similar line with what I like. The majority of our car club is comprised of midlife and older guys, and most of them are only concerned with complete stock restoration of their S30s/130s/z32s.
We like to go fast, and he even enjoys drifting his Z's.
If I'm really lucky, maybe having someone with similar interests within the club will accelerate my engine/turbo progress. Hey, and if he doesn't use that RB25DET... well... maybe I could!
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 1 2009, 01:10 PM|
| How did the paint buffing turn out? Is it dont yet, or are you tired of giving it elbow grease?
Did you ever make a MSN/Windows Live IM account?
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 1 2009, 03:47 PM|
| Oh, the elbow grease is still flowing! Its getting closer to all-around shininess, BUT... I've discovered some things that pissed me off. I knew that I made some mistakes in the painting process, but I've discovered some more too. I taped up ALL the edges of the car to prevent a burn through with the buffer, but there are a few flat areas where the paint just didn't lay on thick enough. Sanding down just barely to where the surface was a uniform smooth (minimum) in a couple areas and I can see the dark shadow of primer. Its not noticable from over a few feet away, but it certainly bothers me. I'll be shooting more paint at some point, and this time I'll make it thicker. And put a little reducer in so it can atomize better out of the gun and not turn the car into a giant f*cking orange again. Seriously, I don't care if the can says the paint needs a little sanding to get smooth, this was a nightmare.
I'll try to make an msn thing tonight.
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Jun 1 2009, 05:01 PM|
| But it came out a sweet orange
Do what you can for now, and keep up the hard work as always.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 1 2009, 11:38 PM|
Unfortunately "good enough" isn't good enough for me, so I'm always trying to do better than what I've done. Its really hard for me to be pleased with my work.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 2 2009, 06:12 PM|
Thats how you get the nicest product in the end! I feel the same way with my car, and the final product is always satisfying when people compliment you and start a conversation, or even just a simple 'thumbs-up' is rewarding.
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 2 2009, 06:52 PM|
|That is so much fun when people talk or even stop what they are doing even drving just to talk to you. Police even stop me just to look at my car and relating how much it reminded them of high school. As far as a nsx driver letting me drive his car so he can drive mines =)|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 2 2009, 07:15 PM|
Off topic question: What do you drive again?
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 2 2009, 07:33 PM|
I think he mentioned somewhere that he rocks an S130... I could be wrong though.
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New goodies in the mail today! My laptop is getting nuked though, so I'll provide photos later. Its just a few minor items anyway...
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 3 2009, 02:44 PM|
| A hs130z with the orginal glossy devil blue metallic with the white turbo logo in the side... that car is so freakin retro lol(t-tops )..hate the nazi wheels lol.
What did you get in the mail?
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 4 2009, 09:50 AM|
Boring stuff, really.
New window weatherstrip/stainless trim, Windshield washer motor/reservoir combo (never had a working one since I bought the car), plastic rivets for interior trim, new lock pulls, 16 f*ckU steel lug nuts with special socket, fender cover for engine work, mud/rock guards, license plate frame!
I really wasn't too sure about the mud guards at first, but after looking at them for a few minutes they don't look half bad. They don't flow perfect with the ZG flares, but I'm sick and tired of cleaning road spray and other crap off my fenders and doors that's flying off my wheels. Its only a matter of time before I run through some small rocks that chip the paint.
I've never had a working windshield washer with this car, ever. The old reservoir is cloudy, yellowed and dry rotted with age. When I took the motor out of it fine rusty dust poured out (the remains of whatever impeller pump was in there). So please excuse me, it THE most exciting thing that should not be exciting for me now. The window weatherstrip is kick ass too, because I used to have to be really careful washing the car or I'd get water on the backs of the door speakers.
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 4 2009, 10:15 AM|
|Yeah the smae reason i install mudflaps in mines as well|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 4 2009, 07:57 PM|
|I think the mudflaps look great, its a nice touch. Keep them black of course!|
|Posted by: the passing Jun 4 2009, 08:56 PM|
|The mud flaps look nice at all sir.|
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 4 2009, 09:11 PM|
|Even though happing the rubber ones are better but i dont know if they make them|
|Posted by: StraightAwayZ Jun 4 2009, 09:29 PM|
| Heh I see you too have the fender covers Me and my silly self bought two.. Btw, LOVE your car. Its overall image is something i was highly considering for awhile. So the annoying questions come to mind, what are the specs on those rims? And what did you do to black your chrome? Ive been wanting to do the same to mine.
Annnd, I didnt see mention of this in the first couple of pages beyond you did it, but what did you use for the rear brakes? What pad compounds are you using? Hows the brake bias? Many thanks.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 5 2009, 05:18 AM|
I'm not positive on the rims, they came with the car and I can't be sure if they are "stock" or not. They're 14", don't know the width but I'd guess 6". With any luck they will be the next thing to go on the car, I want them gone.
Don't even ask about the tires, they're bulbous Firestone Affinitys. No further description needed.
How I blacked the stainless steel trim is actually really simple, and the process would have been much easier if I just took the trim off the car. Nope, I masked the whole car except for the trim. Quite possibly one of the dumber ordeals I put myself through, but I didn't have any overspray onto the body. The paint I used all came in rattlecans. duplicolor self etching primer, Transtar 2-in-1 black primer, Transtar Trim black. If you prep the surface well, these paints rock. Very durable, nice matte finish.
The rear brakes are Brembo 11.5's off of a 300ZX I believe, with 240SX calipers. The whole kit was from Modern Motorsports, except the calipers. I don't remember what exactly they were, but the rear brake pads Ross sold me were KVR's. Not sure on the compound, but they seem to be holding up alright.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 6 2009, 09:01 PM|
| So about 15 minutes ago I was driving back from my gf's on the 15, at 1230am. I look in my rearview mirror and see a set of lights approaching at ludicrous speed. In seconds the guy is on my bumper, and those round headlights were unmistakable...
Yep, a black 911. After gunning my engine up to about 110mph (just for show really, lol he flew by me in the slow lane, then swerved between a limo and SUV and nearly lost it into the guardrail before speeding off down the highway. There's no way I could've chased this guy, my engine puts out maybe 150hp at the wheels, and that was a newer 911. Looked like Y2K+. Too bad I don't have that motor in the car yet.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Jun 6 2009, 09:15 PM|
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 6 2009, 09:42 PM|
|WAIT!!!!What did the GF say?lol|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 6 2009, 10:08 PM|
lol, she wasn't in the car.
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I want this setup. Badly. Like you wouldn't believe.
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Jun 7 2009, 04:12 AM|
|That is the sh*t, how much does one of those bad boys cost?|
|Posted by: Zeether Jun 7 2009, 06:07 AM|
|That Z looks so sex. I'd say you made the right choice of color, it looks so wild|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 7 2009, 08:48 AM|
Depending on where you buy it from and how complete it is, prices can vary quite a bit. I've seen the setup go for $3550, and that's everything you see in the picture there, including the three OER racing carburators and intake manifold, not just the surge tank.
In case anyone is wondering, this is the setup for turbocharging a carburated Nissan L6 engine... and probably the one they depict in Wangan Midnight...
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Jun 7 2009, 10:09 AM|
well I figured as much, I mean the only time I see the words surge tank is on a turbocharged car, question is, do they still make that kit, or are you going to have to hunt for it?
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 7 2009, 10:52 AM|
|i think this would be a very difficult chase =D how longwill somebody will make a replica depicted in the anime|
|Posted by: PanzerAce Jun 7 2009, 10:59 AM|
I considered going the carb + turbo route awhile ago (also looking for the type two HKS setup). I even found a SK setup (which aren't bad), but decided that EFI just made way more sense on a turbo engine in the long run.
|Posted by: Triippz Jun 7 2009, 11:17 AM|
|you think this car would be great at the corners?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 7 2009, 12:32 PM|
My car? The answer is a resounding NO. Well, maybe I'm not giving it credit. The stock S30 is pretty good in the corners, even with its dated, non-dual wishbone suspension. Mine has full polyurethane bushings, Tokico gas shocks and progressive Eibach springs which lower it by a small margin. This helps. HOWEVER, my weak point is in my wheels, and I have no shock tower struts for extra rigidity. Look at them, they're 14x6 with (essentially) truck tires on them. They are terrible, and make the car feel gummy and give delayed turning response. Sure it can carve up the corners, and I've even "drifted" (unintentionally), but it doesn't feel at all like even my old 3000GT SL with stock setup, which was like driving on rails.
Next upgrade: wheels and tires.
|Posted by: Zeether Jun 7 2009, 12:56 PM|
|Heh, well, the Devil Z is supposed to be nearly uncontrollable anyway.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 7 2009, 12:59 PM|
Uncontrollable and sloppy are two different things. I think the Devil Z just has a shitty driver.
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 7 2009, 02:47 PM|
|Well didnt the Devil use to been a track car|
|Posted by: Zeether Jun 7 2009, 03:47 PM|
|btw, if you don't want to shell out $3000 on Watanabes Konig makes lookalikes called Rewind.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 7 2009, 04:03 PM|
yeah, I've been surfing rinkya and yahoo jp for a good set of Watanabes for a while. I've looked at Konigs, but they're not wide enough for me. I've actually considered rota rbs recently, as much as I said I'd NEVER do, but at 17x9,17x9.5 staggered they actually fit the Z without the need for spacers or suspension modifications. Not only that, but my friend has a set of racing compound tires that would fit them, and he's willing to sell the set well below the $250 per tire they'd normally cost. I certainly don't want to be the first, but I've also never heard of any of these wheels breaking, even by some of the HBZ members who have tracked them.
If I can find some Wats for a similar price though, I'll be on that like stink on rice.
|Posted by: Zeether Jun 7 2009, 04:29 PM|
|I wish there was a US company that distributed Watanabe rims, that would be convenient.|
|Posted by: peemyTNBow Jun 7 2009, 04:40 PM|
| RS Watanabe has a HQ in Torrance, CA.
Any wheel can break under hard track use. Depends on how many heat cycles you put through it.
Quality cast > Cheap cast.
Forged > Cast
For lightness, and strength.
Rotas have broken on the track before.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 7 2009, 07:36 PM|
Yes, they have broken before. But so far I have not heard of the RB models having any failures, yet.
Like I said, I'm doing my damnedest to find a good set of Wats (which I'm pretty sure are forged). But if I can't I've already got a set of wheels and awesome tires (which would actually cost more than the wheels themselves) lined up for a great price. Mid level, not incredibly cheap quality, but not the best. I think I read that a set of RBs in the dimensions I mentioned weighs about 45lbs, according to EMWHYRON on HBZ. He's very pleased with them, on and off the track.
|Posted by: peemyTNBow Jun 7 2009, 10:20 PM|
| I believe strongly he is incorrect.
The 17 x 7.5 4 x 100 PCD Rota RB has been weighed in at around 18.20 lbs a wheel. Which turns out to 72.80 lbs for a set. Meaning the 9 and 9.5 RBs are going to weigh in at around 20 lbs a wheel.
Approximately 45 lbs a set means each wheel 11.25 lbs a wheel. Our SSR Type C-RS 17 x 7.5 weighs in at 14.6 lbs a wheel. Our Type C-RS is about 1 to 1/2 lbs lighter than a standard Rays Engineering TE37 (Depending on size and offset).
I know 5Zigen Forged FN01Rs and Buddy Club P1 forged wheels are pretty light too, somewhere in the same neighborhood as the SSRs.
Cliffs: Basically it has to be a forged, high quality single or multipiece wheel to weigh in at 11 lbs on that size otherwise i call BS. I don't believe in just throwing on wheels for looks. Wheels have to be lighter, wider and stronger than OEM.
RS Watanabes are cast wheels. However, the reason they are famous is because some of their wheels are Cast magnesium (extremely light). Which makes them very light, but you need to specifically order that. And, they are usually expensive. But, even regarding cast wheels, there is a difference between quality cast and shitty cast: Enkei MAT cast, Yokohama Advan series and Watanabe cast wheels are probably leagues ahead of the filipino and chinese casting process.
|Posted by: StraightAwayZ Jun 7 2009, 10:55 PM|
| I too trust the Rbs and will be getting a set for my car- If you want some give me a PM, i know someone who has some filthy dirty prices on them and has stupid cheap shipping to boot.
The Rb is heavier than id like, but they hold the tire size i want, have the look i want, and fit the price i want. I simply dont have the money (or desire) to go spend 5x as much on rims for a performance gain i will hardly notice. And with their record, their durability is far from being a concern of mine.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 8 2009, 10:53 AM|
|My car has windshield washer squirters that work for the first time since I bought it! WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!|
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Jun 8 2009, 12:49 PM|
Wonderful isn't it?
And moral of the wheel lesson: Don't buy cheap wheels
|Posted by: peemyTNBow Jun 8 2009, 04:30 PM|
| Not don't buy cheap wheels.
Buy wheels that are light, strong, good quality, and are backed by companies that offer good dealer/customer service.
For example: I use the 360 Forged, HRE, and SSR examples. 360 Forged, HRE, and SSR all sell wheels that are anywhere from $2500 - $8000 dollars a set.
360 Forged died a painful death because the quality, weights, and customer service did not match their $1500 a wheel price tag. It was a shame. Their wheels were gorgeous in pictures. They were not that light, and the finishing sucked. They had a lot of potential customers, and the marketing ability to do well. They had more orders than they could handle, they accepted those orders without understanding the whole grand scheme of it. They 1/2 assed the wheels, the finishes, the sizing, the hardware, and the customer service.
HRE on the other hand, they had some finishing, structural problems with their wheels. Their image was ALMOST lost in most car communities when the rumor of HRE wheels being banned from Viper Club of america track events spread. But, HRE made a very strong effort to make most of their unsatisfied customers happy. The president of the company himself answered every question on the car forums, and tried to make things right. HRE's name was saved for the most part, and people still do business with them.
SSR at one point was distributed by Tire rack in the USA. They had a few bad batches of wheels. The old Type C (SSR Competition) at one point was said to be so light because there was a lack of enough wheel material. A few (not widespread), of the older SSR Competitions, GT3s, and GT2s developed cracks under heavy load. They learned from their mistake when they went bankrupt. When Tanabe Japan bought them, they redid all their tooling. They came out from that whole ordeal much stronger.
It turned out, the most $$$$$ of the wheel brands was the shittiest one. So, in the end, it's up to the customer to do his homework before buying wheels. If anyone is naive enough to believe that almost 2 x the rotational mass, and 1/2 the strength of a lightweight quality cast or full forged wheel will not affect their performance at some point, then they are just naive and usually learn the hard way later. A bit of information: The actual weight distribution of the wheel in the hub, spokes, barrel and face of the wheel makes a different on how the car handles on the street, and track too.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 8 2009, 04:53 PM|
| Well said.
I recently watched a video on the construction process of Rays. Truly dumbfounding, and amazing. But I'd rather have a down payment for a house...
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Jun 8 2009, 06:09 PM|
Same goes for me for a set of BBS rims
|Posted by: the passing Jun 8 2009, 07:13 PM|
Watanabes costs that much?!
well, what wheel & tire size is most appropriate for a 240Z? + offset thats a great fit with fender flares on?
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 8 2009, 07:26 PM|
17x9 -13 offset, 17x9.5 -19 offset (staggered) rota RBs fit perfect and fill out the flares. 16x9 -13 offset, 16x9.5 -19 offset (staggered again) Watanabe R-types also fit the flares perfectly, but I hear they may rub the shock towers depending on the tires size you're running, and may need coilovers to overcome this and provide adequate clearance. For anything else there's spacers, and as a general rule S30s like wheels with 0 to negative offset.
And yes, Watanabes are at least $2500+ when you order a set, plus shipping and whatever options you want on top of that.
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 8 2009, 11:03 PM|
|With that type of money it could be better be used in that dream l28|
|Posted by: AK-Z Jun 9 2009, 12:52 AM|
| These are what I'll be rockin (if they are still around by the time my car is done )
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 9 2009, 06:59 AM|
Never cheap out on a bad quality wheel. I have Rotas on my AW11, this is true, but I was also 14 years old at the time so a good set wasnt coming for a while! Now Im glad I didnt get expensive wheels because the car was stolen.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 15 2009, 10:53 PM|
| No really exciting updates. I found a pick n' pull junkyard (FINALLY) with a 280z. I took every thing I could carry off of it, and I'm not done. Biggest finds were the perfect turn signal/wiper switches, heater panel/brackets and the non-webbed non-EGR N42 intake manifold. Next trip I make I'm taking the tail lights.
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Like I said, nothing exciting...
|Posted by: DOHC Jun 15 2009, 11:30 PM|
|looks like you have a bit cleaning to do|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 16 2009, 04:31 AM|
|A glass beading cabinet would be nice to have right now! I fell stupid, but is that a light or a button that says 'fuel'? What does it do if its a button? If its a light, Im assuming is a low gas indicator lamp.|
|Posted by: AK-Z Jun 16 2009, 05:02 AM|
Lol, don't feel stupid. Thats the low fuel warning light. Its "suppose" to light up, but usually it just sits there and mocks you .
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 16 2009, 07:55 AM|
True story! The first time I broke down that sucker lit up just as my engine died!
The other "blank" slot opposite of the fuel level warning light is where the floor temp warning lamp goes (CA model). I swapped mine in.
And I now know someone with a bead blasting booth, so I'm in the money.
|Posted by: AK-Z Jun 16 2009, 09:15 AM|
lol, on mine, the other spot was for the defrost light, the other 280z didn't have it, even though it was from WA
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 17 2009, 07:26 PM|
|I like my defroster light. It turns a pretty blue color when I flip the switch (and nothing else).|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 20 2009, 10:07 PM|
|ROFL! I'd be like...thanks for the fair warning you stupid car!|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 25 2009, 12:11 PM|
| No real updates for a few weeks? Sorry, been busy. And I did take a little break from my usual pace of working on the car. Here's some imagery from the past few weeks...
Got to try on several pairs of shoes just to narrow down what I wanted to put on the Z.
Watanabe RS8. Now I can say a Wat has been on my car.
And these gigantic things. They were very, very light forged 15x10's if I remember right. A little big for me, lol. Not the look I'm going for either. They also rubbed like crazy every time I turned right on a short test run around the block.
But this is what I finally ended up going with.
Many bothans died getting these images...
The only fitment problem so far is that the left rear wheel can't be tightened down. The stupid twice pipes exhaust sticks out too far into the wheel well. I knew that was going to be a problem, sooner or later... Good news is that my brakes now have gobs of breathing room, and it doesn't look like the rims will rub on the spring perches at all, even with tires on (so I hope).
I'll take some better ones once I get the tires mounted.
|Posted by: JDMMA70 Jun 25 2009, 02:38 PM|
|ive always liked Watanabes on 240's Autostrada Modenas will fit nicely too.|
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Jun 26 2009, 12:22 PM|
its supposed to do something else??
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 26 2009, 08:31 PM|
OM NOM NOM!
Comparison of the old wheel and the new. Stock wheel is on the right. Srsly.
Dropped a large wad of cash today on tires, brought them to the shop I used to work at and installed/balanced them myself. I'd never done this sort low profile before though, so I had to get another set of hands to help with the mounting process a couple times. Truck/suv/stock wheels-- so much easier to do. And two of my wheels definitely set the record for the most balance weights I've ever added to one wheel. I blamed the wheel, but one of the guys there told me it was most likely the Yokohamas being a b*tch of a tire when it comes to balance. We'll see.
Still working out clearance issues with the exhaust system, tomorrow is crunch day. I have a ton of prep before this car show, even if I don't even consider my Z anywhere close to being a show car. Exhaust is the biggest issue, but I'd really like to roll/cut/weld the "inner" fenders a little just to give me a little more breathing room. I hope these tires grip as good as they look.
Yokohama S-Drives, 235/40/17 front, 255/40/17 rear.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Jun 27 2009, 08:51 AM|
|New shoes!!! Looks good.|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 29 2009, 05:32 AM|
|Looks great from what we have seen! Get some god shots of the car for us, your hiding your new wheels.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jun 29 2009, 06:16 PM|
| Ok, I give in...
Here's a picture taken by someone n the CT Z car club at the Orange County Choppers Nissan/Infinity car show, which was yesterday.
I'll get some better shots whenever I find time. Being after dark, my lighting sucks so I really can't get a good pic of the wheels.
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jun 30 2009, 02:17 PM|
| OMG you car is so f**kin' hot!
It looks really good, I love orange/black Zs!
|Posted by: GT3 RS Jun 30 2009, 06:05 PM|
| First time Ive looked at this
The car looks good
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 2 2009, 09:23 PM|
|Posted by: DOHC Jul 2 2009, 10:38 PM|
|i see you have a Z and now were is the barack birdo?|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 3 2009, 12:29 AM|
Actually haven't ran into anyone that's outrun the Z since I got the wheels. I have a friend in the club who has an RB25DET powered Z that's painted flat black, but he could have kicked my ass in a second. Last thing I raced was some guy in a Chrysler Crossfire who tried to race me after entering the highway. He couldn't keep up, which is sad because my car is still pretty slow...
|Posted by: Betrayal Jack Knife Jul 3 2009, 08:37 AM|
|Very nice, the exhaust is a bit crooked though lol|
|Posted by: Globerunner513 Jul 3 2009, 08:40 AM|
| I never thought I'd like the mud-flaps coupled with the zg flares...but i LOVE it!
I think im hooked when I get down to doing flares on mine.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 3 2009, 08:53 AM|
The exhaust is very crooked. Its extremely difficult to position since its one pipe-into-two pipes-into-two pipes. I've taken that thing apart and put it together back at every angle, even cut a small chunk out of one pipe to shorten it. The pipes are simply mandrel bent in all the wrong places. I'd like to get under there and really fix it, but that's going to take some tools I don't have at home, and possibly new pipe.
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I still need to install the fronts. The rear flaps were easy, but the front flaps will require some trimming to fit under the ZG flare.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Jul 4 2009, 06:51 AM|
|Dude, I gotta say props to you, that is about one of the best looking Z's I've seen. It looks exactly how I wanted to make mine look before I sold it. I'm even digging the fender mirriors on it, I generally hate those things but they look good on yours for some reason. Maybe the color combo. Anyway, car looks badass man, congrats. Now it's time to make it run like it looks|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 7 2009, 05:40 PM|
She corners very nicely with the new wheels/tires, the only thing I really need to improve is a couple of strut bars and coilovers. And somewhere down the road a camber kit. At the same time though... I need to figure out a better route for the exhaust before I lower this car at all. It already scrapes on just about everything, and its strapped as high as it will go under the diff (can't route the stupid twice pipes any other way without seriously f**king up the already messed up angle the exhaust tips are at). I've rolled the fenders some more since the 4th of July with a (westwood?) rolling tool, which is fine for now. But if I plan to lower the car I'd probably be better off cutting and welding for clearance. Or trying to pull the fenders even more, which has already been a hassle.
You guys won't see any major cool shit for a while, sorry. Just little improvements for the next few month while I save and prep for the Z's BFE (Big F'n Engine) transplant. Maybe I'll make a video or something.
UPDATE: My brake booster is failing, motherf@#ker...
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Jul 7 2009, 05:45 PM|
|I would dump the dual pipes and just run 2.5" single pipe, or 3" if your future engine swap will require it|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 7 2009, 06:23 PM|
I'll run a thicker pipe, maybe with the dual tips I currently have welded on the end. My Z WILL NOT have a fart can on it. Ever. I'll do anything to avoid it. I'll reroute the exhaust through the cabin, or have it dump out just below the engine before I'd even consider a OMGWTF HUGE single pipe. Even if it is better for flow..... no.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Jul 8 2009, 08:05 AM|
|Each to his own However, I wasn't saying not to run dual tips, just thank a large single pipe may be easier to route under the car than the dual pipes.|
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 8 2009, 09:08 AM|
Oh yeah, definitely. I can't wait to route a bigger single pipe for the exhaust instead of these two annoying ones. My only concern is that going back into the dual tips might produce a bad amount of backpressure. I'll wait until the engine swap to do this though, lest I end up modifying the exhaust several more times.
|Posted by: Force Fed Mopar Jul 8 2009, 09:54 AM|
|Not if you size them right. 3" down to 2 2.5" tips wouldn't affect backpressure in the least IMO.|
|Posted by: MaikazeFD3S Jul 9 2009, 06:12 AM|
| I say go single, but you have already stated your opinion on it.
In that case, have you thought of a side exit. Im not sure how you feel about that option but its always up in the air.
|Posted by: Oddmanout84 Jul 9 2009, 05:00 PM|
I've seen it done. It looks totally awesome IMO, and I considered it for a while. But the guy who did it said its ridiculously loud, in a bad way.