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> close thread, page 14 jane is totaled may she R.I.P
S12 Drifter
Posted: Aug 29 2009, 06:18 PM
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[ Post merged on Aug 30 2009, 12:01 PM ]
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/share.do?inv...State=RETRIEVED

f**k f**k f**k. right after i fixed the rust too.
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Aug 30 2009, 12:32 PM
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What was that, a rod knock? lol
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S12 Drifter
Posted: Aug 30 2009, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (Force Fed Mopar @ 8 minutes, 26 seconds ago)
What was that, a rod knock? lol

i honestly don't know. I'm getting ready to take the motor apart. I'm gonna get my mechanics opinion and go from there.

shit has me terrified.

FML

well guess I'm rebuilding ALOT sooner then i thought.
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Oddmanout84
Posted: Aug 30 2009, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (S12 Drifter @ 6 hours, 26 minutes ago)


well guess I'm rebuilding ALOT sooner then i thought.

I don't want to say it......









awe, f**k it.


I told you so.



Now you know. Next time, do it right.
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SouthSideSlider
Posted: Aug 30 2009, 07:22 PM
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Z31+ Vh45DE= remote turbo setup= totally awseome. i'm sure if people can fit them in 1st gen RX-7s then they will fit in a Z31
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JDMMA70
Posted: Aug 31 2009, 04:02 AM
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QUOTE (S12 Drifter @ Yesterday, 12:41 PM)
i honestly don't know. I'm getting ready to take the motor apart. I'm gonna get my mechanics opinion and go from there.

shit has me terrified.

FML

well guess I'm rebuilding ALOT sooner then i thought.

That sounds like rod knock although could be other internal engine damage. Well do it once and do it right smile.gif hope you mecahnic knows what hes doing (not implying that he doesnt just saying)
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Aug 31 2009, 12:17 PM
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Hey, keep us updated. It sounds like a rod-knock to me.
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S12 Drifter
Posted: Aug 31 2009, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE
Now you know. Next time, do it right.


what do you mean next time? don't you mean this time do it right? tongue.gif

and yes I might possibly be changing everything i can that might break while i can.

moar http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/share.do?inv...State=RETRIEVED

i think it's a rod. i won't know 100% till i pull the motor and take it apart. also gives me time to change the leaky seals on the transmission that i've been needing to change for sometime but been to lazy because it was alot of work for just a transmission.

motor and transmission are coming out in one unit to make my job that much easier.

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S12 Drifter
Posted: Sep 5 2009, 06:55 AM
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So, I pulled the motor and oil pan and everything was 100000000% good. the internals were actually in pretty AWESOME SHAPE for a motor with 90k miles on it. has been taken care of before from what i can see. not even a sign of sluge so it's pretty good.

i removed the transmission and the flywheel was wobbly the bolts to the fltwheel had come loose making it seem like it was a knocking.

I'm replacing all the seals I can.

and by the way I learn NGK iridiums are garbage for boost.

I'm gonna be going one step colder then the RP6's to RP7's the 6's are fouling out quicker then i thought.

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JDMMA70
Posted: Sep 6 2009, 01:40 PM
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Iridiums arent THAT bad, if youre staying within the stock range its fine, and even higher horsepower youre ok its a hit and miss. I dont usually like to run Copper plugs because of how often i have to replace them.

Bottom end does look good, id still overhaul it anyways since you already have it out.
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Sep 9 2009, 11:34 AM
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Awesome! Im glad it worked out for you, building a motor without the 'rod knock' is very fortinate.

I would have been esctatic!
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PanzerAce
Posted: Sep 9 2009, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE (JDMMA70 @ Sep 6 2009, 02:40 PM)
Iridiums arent THAT bad, if youre staying within the stock range its fine, and even higher horsepower youre ok its a hit and miss. I dont usually like to run Copper plugs because of how often i have to replace them.

Bottom end does look good, id still overhaul it anyways since you already have it out.

Copper is the *only* way to go on a performance engine. If you are having to replace them alot, that means something else is wrong in your car.
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Sep 9 2009, 11:47 AM
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I run Iridiums (A colder plug) to be honest, but next time I swap out plugs Im running a copper plug.

Not to be a dumbass, I know that for a real performance/race motor, you use copper plugs (Its like a golden rule) but why? Whats the real difference?
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PanzerAce
Posted: Sep 9 2009, 12:56 PM
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I'm not sure what the specific reason for it is (I've got a degree in history, not material sciences after all), but everyone I know with a modified car runs Copper plugs, and those that try iridiums (since alot of times they are cheaper these days), never stopped having problems with them, and switching back to copper made them work fine.

I actually find it's a great litmus test for if they actually know cars. When someone starts talking about the "modifications" they've done to their car, I just ask what kind of plugs they run. If they say Iridiums/Platnums/whatever, I just ignore them from then on.

This post has been edited by PanzerAce on Sep 9 2009, 12:58 PM
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Sep 9 2009, 08:43 PM
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Yeah, but now that Im running a bigger turbo and more then stock fuel I feel the need to run copper. Before I didnt nessecarily need it, I was on a stock CT26 and 440cc injectors.
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TexasDemonZ
Posted: Sep 10 2009, 03:43 AM
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Did I read right that you're trying to get 550-620hp out of a VG30ET?

Not to rain on your parade, but 350-400hp is prooooobably gonna be more realistic..... if you're lucky. There are two built VG30ET's laying on the floor in my garage.... I can promise you, you're not gonna hit 500 by yourself. Spend 10-15k, and yeah, 500-550 might be a possibility....

Not trying to put you down or anything, but even 500hp is a lot harder to get than it sounds... Take this into consideration. The Turbo Z31 had 200hp 227ft-lbs of torque AT THE CRANK on stock boost.
The motor is an SOHC 3.0L
Trying to drag even 500HP out of it is going to be pricey and very difficult.

A NON Turbo Z32 had 222HP out of the box, that's a full 22 HP more on an NA.
The Turbo Z32's, had around 300-315HP out of the box, AND were DOHC. You dont even want to know how much 500whp on a Z32 will cost you. And that's on a motor starting out with more power, and more air/exhaust flow.


Like I said, not trying to put you down, infact, more power to you. Just dont be suprised if your numbers are much lower than you are expecting.
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JDMMA70
Posted: Sep 10 2009, 07:51 AM
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QUOTE (PanzerAce @ Yesterday, 12:56 PM)
I'm not sure what the specific reason for it is (I've got a degree in history, not material sciences after all), but everyone I know with a modified car runs Copper plugs, and those that try iridiums (since alot of times they are cheaper these days), never stopped having problems with them, and switching back to copper made them work fine.

I actually find it's a great litmus test for if they actually know cars. When someone starts talking about the "modifications" they've done to their car, I just ask what kind of plugs they run. If they say Iridiums/Platnums/whatever, I just ignore them from then on.

Im quoting this from an old email sent out during the days of Supra Webrings and such. This should help as to why Copper is considered best. And when i meant often i meant every 2500-3200 miles is how long they last me


QUOTE
From: "Arlene Lanman" Lanman@pp....
To: supras@supras.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:15:07 -0500
Subject: Re: NGK Iridium vs. Platinum vs. Copper Sparkplugs




Spark plugs have two jobs: to produce a very high temperature spark
to ignite the air/fuel mixture as quickly as possible.and to fine tune
the temperature of the combustion chamber via what is know as the
heat range of the plug.

The shape of the plug electrode is important. The sharper the
electrodes (anode and cathode) become, the easier it is to ionize the
air between them. The easier it is to ionize the air, the small the gap
can become, and the smaller the gap, the more uniform ignition will
be.

There is the problem associated with the width of the electrode. The
width of the electrode causes an affect called shrouding. The intent
is for the spark to occur, ideally, in a a hemispherical pattern. The
wider and, hence more shrouded, the electrode, the greater the
chance the spark will not be hemispherical and the chance of piston
rock and detonation. Thus, the sharper the electrode (i,e., as un-
shrouded as the practical), there is the best chance of having
maximum contact between the spark and the air/fuel mixture,
making it ignite more easily and the burn spread more smoothly.

Thus, it seems that the sharper the electrodes, the better. This would
be true except for two problems having to do with heat. If this tip is
very sharp, it will get extremely hot because there is so little metal to
heat and there is not enough area to conduct that heat away. Think of
it, first, as a needle with its tip in the hottest part of a flame; the tip
will get red hot, but you han hold the "cool end" of the needle for
several seconds. Now, place a thick wire into the flame, the heat
transfer up the shaft of the wire to your finger will make you release
the wire long before the tip becomes red hot. Thus, too sharp of a tip
will melt the electrode. If the temperature of the tip reaches the
melting point of the metal of which it is made. Below are the melting
points of some commonly used metals (Celsius):

Zinc == 420
Aluminum == 660
Copper == 1083
Steel == 1400-1500
Platinum == 1772
Iridium == 2410

At this point, the votes seem to favor iridium. However, there is
another factor to consider. This consideration is the volume of metal
at the spark tip. If the temperature even instantaneously reaches the
melting point, some of that metal will disappear. You can see that
Platinum and Iridium coated plugs can withstand significantly higher
temperatures, and thus can have sharper tips than their steel or
copper counterparts. If some of the metal does disappear from a very
sharp tip, then you've actually opened up the spark gap some. To
prevent that from happening, we have to start with a wider tip, such
that any small amount that is eroded will not change the size or
geometry of the tip by too much. Now, re-read the diatribe above
concerning shrouding.

Next, too sharp a tip will create a "hot spot" in the combustion
chamber. Even if you don't reach the melting point of the metal, you
can still get it glowing hot. If that tip is still glowing red hot when
the next compression stroke comes about, that residual heat could
ignite the air/fuel mixture before the spark is supposed to occur. This
is pre-ignition. To avoid this, we want a wide area near the tip to
conduct as much heat away from the tip as possible. Here are some
of the thermal conductivities of some commonly used metals (Watts
/ centimeter*Kelvin) :

Zinc == 1.16
Aluminum == 2.37
Copper == 4.01
Steel == 0.70 - 0.82
Platinum == 0.716
Iridium == 1.47

One can easily see why Copper is the metal of choice for the core of
the spark plug. It's just about the best thermal conductor on earth.

So far, what we conclude it that we want is the sharpest tip possible
such that it does not melt the electrode nor does it stay so hot as to
cause pre-ignition.

With this introduction, below is a brief discussion of the common
plug types:

Bare Copper: Low melting temperature and the tips will vaporize
away - they have a very wide tip so each little bit that disappears will
not change the gap size greatly, but they still must be inspected often
to make sure there is sufficient electrode material left. They are great
for very hot running engines which must avoid pre-ignition at all
costs since the wide tip will not stay hot - high boost forced
induction and nitrous engines come to mind.

Platinum: Similar in construction to the copper plugs, but with a thin
coating of Platinum sputtered onto the electrode tips, about 0.010"
thick (a human hair is about 0.005" thick). Because of the high
melting point of Platinum, the tips can be made significantly sharper
without fear of the gap changing shape. But the copper core is still
sufficient to whisk the heat away fairly quickly. These are great all-
around plugs, particularly for use in medium-heat engines (low boost
and NA engines) - they should last a very long time. Very high heat
engines should probably not use them because the sharper tips may
not conduct enough heat away to prevent pre-ignition under adverse
conditions.

Iridium: They are much like platinum plugs just with iridium in
place of the platinum. Because of the extremely high melting point
of iridium, they can have very sharp tips without risk of melting and
they should last a very long time. These would be best for high-rpm
NA engines where the sharpest tip is needed for the best spark and
there is little danger of pre-ignition. However, for a high heat engine,
the sharp tips may not conduct enough heat away to prevent pre-
ignition under adverse conditions.

A little bit of research by the original poster and the numerous
debaters and nay-sayers would have revealed the above information.
I do credit Joe Schesso for having presented some data, where as the
others are restating hearsay and observations without basis in fact -
the best word for this is "conjecture."

Bottomline: plugs require considerable design and should be
selected not on one tid-bit of information (conductivity, melting
point, shape, etc.) but upon application. Lastly, no matter what plug
one selects, always check the gap before installing, always use a
calibrated torque wrench to tighten your plugs (over- or under-
tightening is probably the most common cause of spark plug failure),
buy from a reputable manufacturer, learn to read your plugs, and
check them often.

Arlene Lanman
88T automatic


This post has been edited by JDMMA70 on Sep 10 2009, 07:51 AM
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Sep 11 2009, 05:14 PM
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I switched to Coppers anyway, I figured out that the parts guy gave me BKR5s instead of 7s (I asked for a colder plug) and I'd figure nows a good time since Im running more fuel on the bigger turbo.
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JDMMA70
Posted: Sep 11 2009, 06:27 PM
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lol you asked for a colder plug and he gave you a hotter plug
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PanzerAce
Posted: Sep 11 2009, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (JDMMA70 @ 2 hours, 25 minutes ago)
lol you asked for a colder plug and he gave you a hotter plug

Alot of auto part store people don't get that colder plugs go in hotter engines tongue.gif
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S12 Drifter
Posted: Sep 12 2009, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (TexasDemonZ @ Sep 10 2009, 06:43 AM)
Did I read right that you're trying to get 550-620hp out of a VG30ET?

Not to rain on your parade, but 350-400hp is prooooobably gonna be more realistic..... if you're lucky. There are two built VG30ET's laying on the floor in my garage.... I can promise you, you're not gonna hit 500 by yourself. Spend 10-15k, and yeah, 500-550 might be a possibility....

Not trying to put you down or anything, but even 500hp is a lot harder to get than it sounds... Take this into consideration. The Turbo Z31 had 200hp 227ft-lbs of torque AT THE CRANK on stock boost.
The motor is an SOHC 3.0L
Trying to drag even 500HP out of it is going to be pricey and very difficult.

A NON Turbo Z32 had 222HP out of the box, that's a full 22 HP more on an NA.
The Turbo Z32's, had around 300-315HP out of the box, AND were DOHC. You dont even want to know how much 500whp on a Z32 will cost you. And that's on a motor starting out with more power, and more air/exhaust flow.


Like I said, not trying to put you down, infact, more power to you. Just dont be suprised if your numbers are much lower than you are expecting.

honestly I do plan on investing money and since then I've brought down my goals

I would like at least 450 - 500RWHP it's all right, i know it's reality I will have to spend money to get it where i want and were no even talking about body work/suspension/roll bars/ all the other misc stuff crying2.gif

I plan on turning my 3.54 open diff into a clutch type LSD and I plan on using the R30A tranny (longest gear ratio from all the Z31 trannys and the king daddy of holding power it's a win win). I did a mild rebuild on it, unfortunately no pics this time except for my plate that just came in that i ordered like 2 months back. I was kinda rushing it.

I replaced all the bottom end seals and gaskets, replaced the tranny seals (it was leaking badly anyway). And i dropped a 4MM socket into cylinder #4 oh what fun it was trying to fish it out with that magnet.

and at the last minute 2 days after i put the motor set in i found out about the crank scrapers crying2.gif pinch2.gif just my luck. i need some.

Vids of car will come soon.
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Sep 14 2009, 06:55 AM
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Sorry to hear about that, we all go through it though. Please post more pics of the build!

I totally forgot to document mine. crying2.gif
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Sep 14 2009, 05:25 PM
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I hope you replaced the bearings, rings and oil pump too blink.gif
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TexasDemonZ
Posted: Sep 15 2009, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE (Force Fed Mopar @ Yesterday, 5:25 PM)
I hope you replaced the bearings, rings and oil pump too blink.gif

that would be important
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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Sep 16 2009, 08:50 PM
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Happy birthday BTW!

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