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> Genesis- the beginning (build thread), Genesis coupe build, up north :D
AK-Z
Posted: Dec 11 2009, 05:21 AM
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Well, to start off.

I have a Genesis Coupe 2.0T (if you guys haven't know already lol). I also have a 280Z thats kinda been on the back burner lately :P.

The Gen is easier to work on at the moment because I can actually move it and I don't have to do any major fabbing (metal is expensive at the moment).

My God-parents wants me to house sit for them while they are away, so I'll have a warm and comfy garage to work in lol (I'm in alaska BTW). Unlike my craptastic car port/tent that I have (and my 280z currently occupies :P).

What I've done:

installed a home made BOV (more for fix that the engine has with revs hanging)
deleted the "silencer" that is on the intake.

Parts Ordered:

HKS cold air intake (just the filter)
WRX TD04L-13T (the 2.0T has the same turbo, but I will be upgrading this one and installing it later)
19T compressor wheel to upgrade the WRX turbo with :D

Things to be ordered/purchased soon:

2.5" aluminum straight tubing (will be bending and welding it, myself)
3" aluminum tubing about 3 feet of it. For the intake.
CMD dynojet Command module (Kinda like a piggy back, but so much more. Able to get 100 HP+ conservatively with everything else completely stock :D. but that won't be the case lol)
Cheap bar and plate IC from ebay :P.
Larger injectors.
Wide Band 2 kit from dynojet (works with CMD, auto calibrating :D)
Fog light surrounds (spare ones, so I can fab my own fog lights. Don't really like the OEM ones)



With everything I believe I can get at least 350 to the wheels. 250-300 is what I'm really aiming for. (210hp at the crank, but its more like 175-185 hp at the wheels :P)

With the turbo selection, without the CMD, it won't really have an affect on anything, except hit boost sooner in the RPMs. And once the upgrade to the turbo is complete, all I'll have to do is, undue the v-clamp that holds the turbine housing and the lines, then slide everything in and reverse the process :D.

Hyundai's been really lenient with their warranty guidelines. Asked the service department what I can and can't mess with. Everything except the IC will be fairly easy to convert back to stock within half an hour :P.


[ Post merged on Dec 11 2009, 05:27 AM ]
(IMG:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ak-z/GenCoupe/photo-2.jpg)

(IMG:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ak-z/GenCoupe/photo2-1.jpg)

(IMG:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ak-z/GenCoupe/photo3-1.jpg)

(IMG:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ak-z/GenCoupe/photo4.jpg)

(IMG:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ak-z/GenCoupe/photo5.jpg)
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: Dec 11 2009, 02:06 PM
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So come on, review of the car? And what do you mean about the "rev hanging"?

This post has been edited by StraightAwayZ on Dec 11 2009, 02:07 PM
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AK-Z
Posted: Dec 11 2009, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (StraightAwayZ @ 44 minutes, 31 seconds ago)
So come on, review of the car? And what do you mean about the "rev hanging"?

YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvS9pJ-2toM )


there is your review.

the culprit is this little guy.

(IMG:http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/ImagesProcedures/Images-Turbo/TurboMitsuTD04B.gif)

This is a pic off a volvo turbo, but pretty much the same thing. Its the little guy on the top, on the hot side of the compressor. Thats the BPR (Boost pressure release) valve. On the Gen, the outlet of where the pressure is released is so close to the inducer on the compressor wheel, that when you let off the gas and the valve opens, it causes the turbo to continue spooling up, but on the compressor side. A BOV fixes it with no adverse affects, since it doesn't have a MAF dependent system (Just MAP :P), unlike the subarus :P
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Betrayal Jack Kn..
Posted: Dec 11 2009, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (AK-Z @ 41 minutes, 10 seconds ago)
YOUTUBE ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvS9pJ-2toM )


there is your review.

the culprit is this little guy.

(IMG:http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/ImagesProcedures/Images-Turbo/TurboMitsuTD04B.gif)

This is a pic off a volvo turbo, but pretty much the same thing. Its the little guy on the top, on the hot side of the compressor. Thats the BPR (Boost pressure release) valve. On the Gen, the outlet of where the pressure is released is so close to the inducer on the compressor wheel, that when you let off the gas and the valve opens, it causes the turbo to continue spooling up, but on the compressor side. A BOV fixes it with no adverse affects, since it doesn't have a MAF dependent system (Just MAP :P), unlike the subarus :P

So it would be boost creep then? Just askin :-"

Looks sweet, hopefully you can get decent number outs of it. Looking forward to hearing the 2.0T with that exhaust
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AK-Z
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE (Betrayal Jack Knife @ 8 hours, 48 minutes ago)
So it would be boost creep then? Just askin :-"

Looks sweet, hopefully you can get decent number outs of it. Looking forward to hearing the 2.0T with that exhaust

Um... no

Boost creep happens, when the wastegate isn't able to pass enough exhaust and bottle necks the system.

I'm already loosing traction on 3rd gear :P lol.
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sidewaysstarion
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (AK-Z @ Yesterday, 2:51 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvS9pJ-2toM

there is your review.

the culprit is this little guy.

(IMG:http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/ImagesProcedures/Images-Turbo/TurboMitsuTD04B.gif)

This is a pic off a volvo turbo, but pretty much the same thing. Its the little guy on the top, on the hot side of the compressor. Thats the BPR (Boost pressure release) valve. On the Gen, the outlet of where the pressure is released is so close to the inducer on the compressor wheel, that when you let off the gas and the valve opens, it causes the turbo to continue spooling up, but on the compressor side. A BOV fixes it with no adverse affects, since it doesn't have a MAF dependent system (Just MAP :P), unlike the subarus :P

uhhh.... no....

Simple reason because with the throttle blade closed very little air should be entering the motor, I blame a slow ecu and crappy drive by wire.

If that were the case then why doesnt my starion do that? It came factory with NO BOV.

This post has been edited by sidewaysstarion on Dec 12 2009, 12:16 PM
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peemyTNBow
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 12:40 PM
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A lot of turbocharged race cars don't run BOVs either.............
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Betrayal Jack Kn..
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (sidewaysstarion @ 1 hour, 30 minutes ago)
uhhh.... no....

Simple reason because with the throttle blade closed very little air should be entering the motor, I blame a slow ecu and crappy drive by wire.

If that were the case then why doesnt my starion do that? It came factory with NO BOV.

By Jay at SuperDrift

"Well, there has been many speculations and researches by shops, but we got this "unofficial" explanation straight from the horse's mouth. We can't name who, but he/she worked on the Gen coupe project.

The rev hang (partial opening of the throttle) was put into the throttle body control in order to lessen the blow by gas emission. During the development Hyundai researchers experienced that if a throttle body closes immediately, pressure inside the engine(crankcase) becomes so great, it caused more oil vaporization than usual. This is quite normal for any turbo charged engines, but Hyundai wanted even better emissions and didn't want to deal with the "oil loss" issues. Thus by partially keeping the throttle body open even after gas pedal has been completely released, pressure can escape from engine.

So, here is what we found out. Solution to the rev hang issue will be to fix the throttle body control codes in the ECU, install oil catch can and add oil every month.."

http://genesisforums.org/technical-tuning-...xplanation.html

Just thought I pop that in, big issue on the Civic Si's with throttle by wire too.
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AK-Z
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (Betrayal Jack Knife @ 1 hour, 57 minutes ago)
By Jay at SuperDrift

"Well, there has been many speculations and researches by shops, but we got this "unofficial" explanation straight from the horse's mouth. We can't name who, but he/she worked on the Gen coupe project.

The rev hang (partial opening of the throttle) was put into the throttle body control in order to lessen the blow by gas emission. During the development Hyundai researchers experienced that if a throttle body closes immediately, pressure inside the engine(crankcase) becomes so great, it caused more oil vaporization than usual. This is quite normal for any turbo charged engines, but Hyundai wanted even better emissions and didn't want to deal with the "oil loss" issues. Thus by partially keeping the throttle body open even after gas pedal has been completely released, pressure can escape from engine.

So, here is what we found out. Solution to the rev hang issue will be to fix the throttle body control codes in the ECU, install oil catch can and add oil every month.."

http://genesisforums.org/technical-tuning-...xplanation.html

Just thought I pop that in, big issue on the Civic Si's with throttle by wire too.

I counter booth your explanations with this finding. With plenty of people that have found the same results.

http://www.genesisdriven.com/posts/2009/04...-coupe-bov.html

And Hyundai even tried to remedy the problem with a reflash of the ECU, with minimum results
Even PowerAxel has tried to make their own firmware flash to fix it, again with minimum results.

And I did say that the pic of the turbo isn't the same turbo. Its just similar, to give an idea of what the BPR valve looks like. The one on the GC 2.0T is actually shallower

You can see how close the BRP valve outlet is to the inducer.
(IMG:http://blogfile.paran.com/BLOG_486552/200811/1226167913_IMG_0764.jpg)

BTW NO street legal car, comes from the factory with a BOV. They have BPR valves, which circulates the boost pressure to an area on the cold side of the turbo. The government doesn't like it when there is any other source of "emissions" other than the exhaust. :P

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peemyTNBow
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 06:08 PM
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Skyline GT-Rs came stock with blow off valves from the factory. They are good for 500 hp too.

(IMG:http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc181/jacko714/Things%204%20Sale/buyerdeposit_20070314_1540.jpg)

This post has been edited by BmwNeoType on Dec 12 2009, 06:09 PM
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DOHC
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 06:23 PM
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I thought some Ferrari's as well

BTW
BmwNeoType does that belong to your GTR?
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 06:23 PM
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Blow-off valve, bypass valve, boost pressure relief valve, all the same damn thing :P Only difference is most people don't plumb their aftermarket BOV back into the system. And air blowing into the turbo inlet would slow the wheel down, not speed it up.
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peemyTNBow
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 06:27 PM
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QUOTE (DOHC @ 3 minutes, 45 seconds ago)
I thought some Ferrari's as well

BTW
BmwNeoType does that belong to your GTR?

No, not from my car.

From someone else's R34.
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AK-Z
Posted: Dec 12 2009, 08:12 PM
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Should of clarified. "US street legal cars".

Yes BOV, bypass valve and BPR valve do the same thing. Doesn't rally help me, since mine doesn't have a hosed outlet.

And well. the rev hang is there. A custom ecu reflash/tune doesn't fix it, but installing a BOV does.
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: Dec 13 2009, 01:16 AM
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QUOTE (AK-Z @ Dec 11 2009, 02:51 PM)
when you let off the gas and the valve opens, it causes the turbo to continue spooling up

When you let off the gas whats spooling the turbo?
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AK-Z
Posted: Dec 13 2009, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE (StraightAwayZ @ 8 hours, 21 minutes ago)
When you let off the gas whats spooling the turbo?

read the sentence before that quote.

Once I get my subbie turbo and a BOV, I'll swap the hyundai turbo out and build a test rig to simulate "normal" operations.
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: Dec 13 2009, 02:19 PM
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Lets make this a bit shorter:

Please do not take me for a fool. I read what you said, it simply does not make sense. The question was not just to get an answer our of you, it was asked to make you think. Go down the process with me, Let off the throttle, the throttle blade closes, fuel/air are both cut from the motor, and the exhaust gas falls to near nothing. I dont care if you have a tripple ball bearing turbo, if the throttle closes there simply is not enough exhaust gas to maintain spinning a turbo like that, especialy to the point it forces enough air into the near-gasless motor (past the presumed closed throttle blade) to keep the rpms constant once you let off the throttle. Let alone "continue to spool up, but on the compressor side" (Seriously, what? Is this some magic 2 piece turbo?). Your cited link says it "almost" fixed it, leading me to believe it still does it to some extent. Which forces me to conclude that method is merely messing with/tricks what the electronics are trying to do from the factory.

Even if your reason is legit (Hey im not saying it DOESNT happen), Id at the VERY least, like to know how it forces enough air past a CLOSED throttle blade, to continue spinning the engine at those rpms.

And back to something i asked before, I was curious about your review of the car. Thats a jim dandy 2 minute break down of the car, but all i know from that is that its a reccomended cheap turbo car for teens that has rev-hang issues. Surely you have more to add, say comments on the brakes, interior, transmission, power delivery, handling, characteristics, visibility complaints, seating position, ride comfort, etc and etc. Surely you have SOME different opinions than some random guy on youtube?

This post has been edited by StraightAwayZ on Dec 13 2009, 03:01 PM
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AK-Z
Posted: Dec 13 2009, 05:51 PM
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DBW throttle body. throttle body never closes fully, unless its at 1.5k rpm.
And because of it being DBW, the throttle being all the way open, doesn't mean that its going to rev higher. Most likely will be, but the ECU takes care of that and the CVTT.

And what do you want me to say about "my review" anyways?

Its a heavy car, and because of that its underpowered for the 2.0T, but feels solid. Unlike my 280z with major chassis flex issues.

handles the same as my civic.

rear seats are more for storage than for passengers, because of the lack of head room.

inherent problem with the bluetooth.

Shiftronic, uses inputs more as a suggestion than anything else.

what more is there?
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Dec 13 2009, 07:28 PM
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Can you post some links to this info? I find it very hard to believe that the TB never closes. That would pretty much kill engine braking, among other issues (like low vacuum). That's what idle air motors were invented for.

Only way I can see an atmo-vented BOV making any difference to the rev-hang is if it is allowing the air in the charge pipes bleed off quicker and keeping as much air from passing through the TB. This is assuming that the TB closes slowly due to the DBW programming.
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: Dec 13 2009, 11:10 PM
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Cable throttles can/do close all the way and need some type of by-pass to allow air into the engine to allow it to idle. DBW cars- with the throttle being computer controlled, could use the throttle to idle and dont need a bypass.

But the DBW was my initial point, thats- in my opinion, much more than likely what is 100% to blame for the issue.
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Dec 14 2009, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (StraightAwayZ @ Yesterday, 11:10 PM)
Cable throttles can/do close all the way and need some type of by-pass to allow air into the engine to allow it to idle. DBW cars- with the throttle being computer controlled, could use the throttle to idle and dont need a bypass.

But the DBW was my initial point, thats- in my opinion, much more than likely what is 100% to blame for the issue.

Hmm, weird way to do it, but maybe it's how it is. It would definitely cause rev hang, and probably kills engine braking for those few sec's, which I can't say I'd care for too much in the mts :)
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sidewaysstarion
Posted: Dec 14 2009, 09:21 PM
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they might have done it to keep you from shocking the drivetrain when you harshly get off of the throttle.... or maybe that just want you to powershift the piss out of it all the time IDK TBH.
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Moss
Posted: Dec 14 2009, 11:48 PM
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or maybe it's because hyundai is evil?
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ZMR_MokSpeed
Posted: Dec 16 2009, 12:17 AM
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You know after seeing that green on the Genesis a lot it slowly kinda starts to grow on you.
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Dec 16 2009, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (ZMR_MokSpeed @ Today, 12:17 AM)
You know after seeing that green on the Genesis a lot it slowly kinda starts to grow on you.

Lol, it's the opposite w/ me. At first it was like "ooh cool color", now the more I see it, the more I dislike it :Xl:
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