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> what engine was used for the devil z
john4kq
Posted: Jan 27 2010, 03:08 PM
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i know its a l28 i mean did it come from the 280zx stock twin turbo or the 280z then twin turbo charged i still havent figured it out so im just wondering and also does anyone know the turbos used

This post has been edited by john4kq on Jan 28 2010, 12:23 PM


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MaikazeFD3S
Posted: Jan 27 2010, 04:04 PM
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Its a 3100cc (3.1l) Twin Turbo, that is still carb'ed. From what I know, its a L28 with a stroker rod/crank set bumping it up to 3.1.

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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Jan 27 2010, 08:53 PM
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I think it's probably a 280Z L28 engine bored and stroked to 3.1, built to handle big boost and utilizing an old school twin turbo kit w/ a set of triple Mikuni carbs.
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PanzerAce
Posted: Jan 28 2010, 01:13 AM
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It's posted somewhere on here (several times), but from what I recall, it's a 3.1 based off the F54 casting (280ZX L28) with a...84mm? crank (presumably a ground/welded V07 LD28 crank) and overbored cylinders. No idea on the head, but production numbers would suggest a P90 or E88. Aftermarket twin turbos (no Z other than the Z32 ever came from the factory with twins, and other than the 280ZXT and 300ZXTs, no other Zs came with turbos at all.

And, as FFM mentioned, it runs "Them funny sideways triple deuces" ie mikuni carbs (probably 44PHHs, don't see why you'd go for 40s in that application...). What I'm wondering these days is what trans would be behind that setup, since nothing stock is going to stand up to the amount of torque that thing was putting out, especially after the power is bumped *way* up.
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<MB>
Posted: Jan 28 2010, 03:08 AM
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The only concern in the Anime was the power factor and him being able to say his heart felt the power of the devil or some crap. My money is probably on a supra tranny or maybe a R33 GTR box, i heard those were relatively bulletproof.
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Moss
Posted: Jan 28 2010, 04:01 AM
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S12 Drifter
Posted: Jan 28 2010, 08:10 AM
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QUOTE (<MB> @ Today, 7:08 AM)
The only concern in the Anime was the power factor and him being able to say his heart felt the power of the devil or some crap. My money is probably on a supra tranny or maybe a R33 GTR box, i heard those were relatively bulletproof.

i believe it was a T5 tranny

from z31p

QUOTE
The T5's don't break from shear torque being applied to them. They break from slamming gears with too much power. If you have it in gear and are accelerating, chances are good it wont break.


QUOTE
For starters, I have broken and rebuilt them all. The t5's weakest point is the shift forks, i have broken several. An aftermarket mustang shift with adjustable stops fixes that. Aside from that, and wearing out syncros, they are pretty sturdy. I finally did mine in when I broke a single tooth off the main input counter gear. This caused a "clunk clunk" in every gear except 4th (1:1). On the FS5W71C (NA tranny) I kept blowing all the teeth off second gear on a 1 - 2 shift. I think I did this twice... 240sx's were plentiful in my u-pull yard and they were 120 a pop, I noticed that they have a wider/stronger second gear cluster. This helped with that, but I sheared the output shaft smooth in two at the drag strip. If you compare the FS5W71C output shaft to the FS5R30A you can see that the latter is HUGELY stronger. It would probably take twice the torque to break it. I somehow managed to tear up my FS5R30A, but I'm hoping it was a fluke, it was the last time I drove the z31, making 480whp, a collar that locates the counter shaft and keeps it from moving forward broke and then my fifth gear syncro hub moved too far and all the dogs/springs popped out. This trans however always seemed a bit noisy from when I got it, and there are some wear marks that make me think its possible this collar was already broken when I got it...

All in all, the T5 is a good little transmission and MUCH lighter. It is also about 100 times easier to rebuild. Id take it over a FS5W71C my self, as the worst it ever did was break a single tooth compared the the massive carnage I inflicted on the FS5W71Cs I had. I had to of blown up at least 4 of them.

I wish this was all due to 800HP drag launches... but it was really just decent power and years of abuse. I think I'm kinda hard on transmissions, I have learned that sometimes it's worth it to just shift slower and save the gearbox.
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peemyTNBow
Posted: Jan 28 2010, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE (<MB> @ 5 hours, 40 minutes ago)
The only concern in the Anime was the power factor and him being able to say his heart felt the power of the devil or some crap. My money is probably on a supra tranny or maybe a R33 GTR box, i heard those were relatively bulletproof.

R154s are pretty bombproof. R32 and R33 GT-R boxes good for up to 500-600 hp. Then they start destroying their 3rd and 4th gear with bigger power. Most people upgrade to reinforced/modified stock, OS Giken, PPG, Quaife internals at that point.

Truly the strongest one is the V160 Getrag in the Supra and the R34 GT-R.
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badboyz31
Posted: Jan 31 2010, 08:36 PM
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L28, bored to 3.1L with a maxima diesel crank and forged pistons and rods, was carbed at the beginning of the series, but closer to the end I do believe they swapped it to fuel injection.
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Oddmanout84
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 01:24 PM
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Basically what everyone else said. LD28 diesel Maxima crank with KA24 pistons I believe, with L24 rods. Likely running triple Mikuni carburators fed by twin turbos. That big bix you see on the carbs is probably a surge chamber which is made by HKS. Mix it all up into an anime and ad a VERY FICTIONAL amount of power.

You'd have much better luck getting to a high power level with a stand alone Electronic Fuel Injection system (like Haltech, which I have), but the L28 engine has a very inefficient head design that is prone to detonation (a bad thing), even with extensive cooling modifications. If your Z is not right hand drive like the one in the anime you will also find it quite hard to fit twin turbos with your steering column in the way.

Bottom line, anime is not real life. Want to come close to what that car does in the series? Get an RB26DETT from an old Skyline GTR.
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DOHC
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (Oddmanout84 @ 8 minutes, 46 seconds ago)
Basically what everyone else said. LD28 diesel Maxima crank with KA24 pistons I believe, with L24 rods. Likely running triple Mikuni carburators fed by twin turbos. That big bix you see on the carbs is probably a surge chamber which is made by HKS. Mix it all up into an anime and ad a VERY FICTIONAL amount of power.

You'd have much better luck getting to a high power level with a stand alone Electronic Fuel Injection system (like Haltech, which I have), but the L28 engine has a very inefficient head design that is prone to detonation (a bad thing), even with extensive cooling modifications. If your Z is not right hand drive like the one in the anime you will also find it quite hard to fit twin turbos with your steering column in the way.

Bottom line, anime is not real life. Want to come close to what that car does in the series? Get an RB26DETT from an old Skyline GTR.

Might as well go Vigra and put a LS1
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peemyTNBow
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE (Oddmanout84 @ 9 minutes, 25 seconds ago)


Bottom line, anime is not real life. Want to come close to what that car does in the series? Get an RB26DETT from an old Skyline GTR.

He has to then fork out the cash to build it reliably to 600-700 hp.

It's not a thing for shallow pockets.

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JDMMA70
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE (badboyz31 @ Yesterday, 8:36 PM)
L28, bored to 3.1L with a maxima diesel crank and forged pistons and rods, was carbed at the beginning of the series, but closer to the end I do believe they swapped it to fuel injection.

Wrong. well on the crankshaft part.

There are two possibilites.

They used JUN Internals (Including the Crankshaft which from JUN was Fully Counter Weighted)

or they use Kameari Internals (Including the Crankshaft which from Kameari was Fully Counter Weighted)

In the original Movie Speed Shop Shinohara built a replica for the movie to the exact specs. Which company they went to for internals is unknown. My money is on Kameari.

This post has been edited by JDMMA70 on Feb 1 2010, 01:46 PM
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Oddmanout84
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (BmwNeoType @ 22 minutes, 10 seconds ago)
He has to then fork out the cash to build it reliably to 600-700 hp.

It's not a thing for shallow pockets.

Lol, well said. Forgot to add that part (maybe a bit important?).


[ Post merged on Feb 1 2010, 01:58 PM ]
QUOTE (JDMMA70 @ 18 minutes, 50 seconds ago)

or they use Kameari Internals (Including the Crankshaft which from Kameari was Fully Counter Weighted)

In the original Movie Speed Shop Shinohara built a replica for the movie to the exact specs. Which company they went to for internals is unknown. My money is on Kameari.

I love Kameari parts. So damn expensive though. I really wanted to buy their baffled oil pan but come on... what was it, $1200?
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PanzerAce
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 02:15 PM
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Might as well go just a bit further and get an ARE dry sump setup for the L at that point :P
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peemyTNBow
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 03:11 PM
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The US dollars shitty value in the global marketplace doesn't help either.
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Feb 1 2010, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (badboyz31 @ Yesterday, 8:36 PM)
was carbed at the beginning of the series, but closer to the end I do believe they swapped it to fuel injection.

No, they kept the carbs, but went to computer controlled ignition.


[ Post merged on Feb 1 2010, 05:18 PM ]
QUOTE (PanzerAce @ 3 hours, 2 minutes ago)
Might as well go just a bit further and get an ARE dry sump setup for the L at that point :P

Which reminds me, I believe in the anime they did this mod also. When the girl (forget her name) does the last rebuild, she said she revamped the oiling system to give it a better center of gravity (assuming the sub-titles are accurate :) ), and the only way I can see this happening is if she dry-sumped it and located a reservoir somewhere low like the spare tire well.
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PanzerAce
Posted: Feb 2 2010, 02:39 AM
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Don't know why you'd put it way back there when you can just put it on the other side of the engine or under the dash *shrugs*


Also, fwiw, there are some Nissan racing parts that used to be available that would allow for a lowered engine. Lost all my pictures when my HDD crashed, but one of them was a changed up oil pan setup, where it ends up *wider* than the engine for the same capacity, with an external pickup and different oil pump housing....damn, going to have to find it again.
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Feb 2 2010, 04:16 AM
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QUOTE (PanzerAce @ 1 hour, 37 minutes ago)
Don't know why you'd put it way back there when you can just put it on the other side of the engine or under the dash *shrugs*


Also, fwiw, there are some Nissan racing parts that used to be available that would allow for a lowered engine. Lost all my pictures when my HDD crashed, but one of them was a changed up oil pan setup, where it ends up *wider* than the engine for the same capacity, with an external pickup and different oil pump housing....damn, going to have to find it again.

Well I suppose it could go under the dash, but since he always seems to have passengers and they don't appear scrunched up :P However, I'd be interested in seeing those pics of the other setup too, if it allowed the engine to sit lower, that would be the more likely mod, as it would change the balance much more than just a sump would.
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S12 Drifter
Posted: Feb 2 2010, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (Oddmanout84 @ Yesterday, 5:56 PM)
Lol, well said. Forgot to add that part (maybe a bit important?).


[ Post merged on Feb 1 2010, 01:58 PM ]

I love Kameari parts. So damn expensive though. I really wanted to buy their baffled oil pan but come on... what was it, $1200?

achem err

you gotta pay to play... or at least thats what i've been told.
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Oddmanout84
Posted: Feb 2 2010, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE (S12 Drifter @ 1 hour, 34 minutes ago)
achem err

you gotta pay to play... or at least thats what i've been told.

Yes, but Kameari parts are special in that they're exceedingly expensive for L engine parts, much more so than any other company I've seen. At least outside a shop that you could contract to design and fabricate a custom part for yourself.

The problem with you giving that tidbit of advice though is that you seriously need to reevaluate what your paying to play with on your own project.

Not to be an ass or anything. Just my advice.
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PanzerAce
Posted: Feb 2 2010, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Force Fed Mopar @ 9 hours, 50 minutes ago)
Well I suppose it could go under the dash, but since he always seems to have passengers and they don't appear scrunched up :P However, I'd be interested in seeing those pics of the other setup too, if it allowed the engine to sit lower, that would be the more likely mod, as it would change the balance much more than just a sump would.

Found them. Not so sure anymore that it allows for a lower setup...

(IMG:http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4807/cleaningthemonster2.jpg)
(IMG:http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4722/themysteriousoilpump4.jpg)

Nissan Motorsports PN 15015-GC002 for the new pump end housing. Don't have a NMPN for the pan itself. Designed to be used with a relocated filter assembly (fed from the unconnected fitting on the pump).

I'll probably end up using that pump housing for my LD swap, since it'll make *everything* easier.

And agreed about Kameari are stupid expensive. Very, very high quality, and I'd love to get my hands on one of their cylinder heads, but TBH, I think they are banking a little too much on their name for most stuff. There are a couple of guys on HBZ that can do just as good of headwork.
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: Feb 3 2010, 05:16 PM
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One important thing to remember Bmw (and anyone else reading this) is that his engine is rated at just a hair over 600 hp. Thats less than 500 at the wheels. Youll wanna help a few things, but the 26s are pretty well capable of 4-500 whp without much issue.

To put some things into perspective, Big phils rebuilt STOCK spec l28 (keep in mind this is an engine based largely on a design from around the 60s, single cam, non-cross flow head, with some serious heat soaking along the intake) with a hand full of supporting bolt on goodies is now doing 400 at his wheels. Thats a stock cam, stock pistons, stock crank, stock rods, stock porting, stock valves, stock everything!

It doesnt take a huge stretch of the imagination to gather what itd take to get that extra 100 whp. Larger cam, 3 angle valve job, 1mm oversized valves, port and polish, forged floating pistons with appropriate compression and forged rods would just be icing on the cake. Now lets Increase the displacement with a very well known crank and rod set up and boost the displacement up to 3.1 liters. Akios Z is far from magical, and his numbers are far from difficult to get to.

Edit: And Jesus panzer learn how to use paint and edit image sizing :P Its annoying having to scroll sideways to read stuff :P. Or at least use spoiler tags, or just post direct links. *nod*

This post has been edited by StraightAwayZ on Feb 3 2010, 05:17 PM
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Force Fed Mopar
Posted: Feb 3 2010, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE
Edit: And Jesus panzer learn how to use paint and edit image sizing tongue.gif Its annoying having to scroll sideways to read stuff tongue.gif. Or at least use spoiler tags, or just post direct links. *nod*


If you use Firefox browser, download Image Zoom and then you can just zoom them to 50% and voila, normal size :)
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Oddmanout84
Posted: Feb 3 2010, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (StraightAwayZ @ 6 hours, 24 minutes ago)
One important thing to remember Bmw (and anyone else reading this) is that his engine is rated at just a hair over 600 hp. Thats less than 500 at the wheels. Youll wanna help a few things, but the 26s are pretty well capable of 4-500 whp without much issue.

To put some things into perspective, Big phils rebuilt STOCK spec l28 (keep in mind this is an engine based largely on a design from around the 60s, single cam, non-cross flow head, with some serious heat soaking along the intake) with a hand full of supporting bolt on goodies is now doing 400 at his wheels. Thats a stock cam, stock pistons, stock crank, stock rods, stock porting, stock valves, stock everything!

It doesnt take a huge stretch of the imagination to gather what itd take to get that extra 100 whp. Larger cam, 3 angle valve job, 1mm oversized valves, port and polish, forged floating pistons with appropriate compression and forged rods would just be icing on the cake. Now lets Increase the displacement with a very well known crank and rod set up and boost the displacement up to 3.1 liters. Akios Z is far from magical, and his numbers are far from difficult to get to.

Coulda swore I read somewhere that Akio's Z was pushing 800-1000hp... which is what I was referring to as "very fictional".

Yes, Big Phil's Z is impressive to say the least. I'm not half as crazy as he is though... I can only imagine what his car would be like with a bigger budget.
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