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> CLSD VS VLSD
S12 Drifter
Posted: May 7 2011, 01:38 PM
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I researched but i still dont get how a VLSD operates. a Clsd operated with a pack of clutches and a spring and during a turn the Clsd sees one tire is spinning faster then the other and transmits the power instantly to the tire that has the most traction right?

but researched even on how stuff works but i still dont get how a Vlsd works. i need a more basic break down (lol i'm retarded haha) of it.

my diff exploded and i wanted to make a VLSD, i can get a j30 lsd for $20 in working condition but i wanna know how it works.


[ Post merged on May 8 2011, 07:28 AM ]
ef this I'll just get a KAAZ 1.5
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Oddmanout84
Posted: May 8 2011, 01:10 PM
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VLSD's (like the one the 300zxt Shiro has) tend to work not as well as the temperature rises, due to them using the special diff fluid to function. Clutch LSD's can be hard to find replacement clutch shims for the older models, I've heard of people making their own.

I'd say f**k the clutches, f**k the special diff fluid and just get an OBX helical LSD and slap that carrier in your R200 case. Its basically a cheap Quaife, you just need to replace the cheap ass inner washers before you use it.
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PanzerAce
Posted: May 8 2011, 01:49 PM
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Generally you also need to swap the gears end for end as well, since they're reversed to avoid lawsuits and the like.
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S12 Drifter
Posted: May 8 2011, 06:58 PM
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yea I'd like to keep my 3.54 or lower gear if i swap. the only thing that survived is the ring gear barely. everything else is pretty much destroyed and I'm not exaggerating lol.

even the rear housing cracked open some how. LMAO and they say R200's are strong lawlz

This post has been edited by S12 Drifter on May 8 2011, 06:59 PM
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: May 8 2011, 11:04 PM
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Theres a few ways a C-Lsd can work (but all generally work on the same principle). The one were most familiar with are the cam-styled 1, 1.5, and 2 way lsds. Basically as the diff spins, a little cam gets forced into a ramp- The harder it gets forced into the ramp, the more tension itll put on the clutches (Clsds are all about pressure between the clutches). 1 way lsds for example only have 1 ramp to push into, and are flat on the other side. When you accelerate, that cam locks down into the ramps and applies "extra" pressure to the clutches, which makes it harder to get "slip" between the clutch disks, which essentially locks the wheels harder together. When you decelerate, it hits against the flat side- so no extra pressure is applied beyond the static pre-load of the diff. 2 ways on the other hand have a cam on each side, so if youre accelerating or decelerating itll apply extra tension and help keep the wheels locked together (This is why drifters like them). 1.5 ways are designed so they add a "little" extra on decel, but having a slightly different shaped cam to press into the clutches. Below is a picture- hopefully this explanation has made it clear what youre looking at.

user posted image

And again theres other ways of doing this- Take for example stock corolla GTS rear ends. Theyre not 1, 1.5, or "2 way" in the sense- They dont have these cams at all. All they have are some springs inside that attempt to apply pressure on the clutches. This is why theyre notoriously weak, and have very minimal break away torque from the factory- Which brings us to another term

Break away torque is how much torque you need to cause the clutches to slip. Small break away figures require little effort to cause the insides to spin, larger figures require more and essentially "lock the wheels harder together". So if you corner in a car with little break away torque, chances are the clutches will slip a bit and only some of the power will be distributed to both wheels (again, because the inside wheel will be allowed to slip against the outside wheel). One with a higher break away torque will keep the wheels locked together firmly, and probably cause the inside tire to slip. Theres advantages/disadvantages to both of these depending on what you want to do. A high break away figure means youll always power both wheels, but too much means youll have little difference than if you drove with a welded rear end, youll always be fighting big under or oversteer, because the inside wheel will always be "slipping". On the flip side lighter break away torque means youll hopefully give "just enough" power to the inside wheel, so that it helps power the car- and hopefully will help you avoid spinning a tire so you lose acceleration potential- But too light and youll be no better than an open dif and will always spin the easiest tire to spin.


Now onto VLSDs- In as simplest as I can describe them, theyre essentially torque converters (like in an automatic transmission) for your differential. As the diff rotates they build up fluid-pressure, and that pressure is what causes the axles to be powered together. This is why theyre a bit finicky, this is why they dont work when a tires up in the air (no resistance to build pressure), this is why they act different when they get hot/cold, and etc.

Just my 02 cents, if ive stated something wrong i welcome people to correct me.
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S12 Drifter
Posted: May 9 2011, 03:32 PM
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i got to thinking if i add a diff oil cooler to a VLSD will this help it keep cool? how much will it reduce temperature by?



The diff oil cooler would work along with a thicker oil and a better more efficient rear cover right?

I was thinking wind-age trays will also help right?

This post has been edited by S12 Drifter on May 10 2011, 03:06 AM
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StraightAwayZ
Posted: May 11 2011, 06:08 PM
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Would it help keep it cool, yes. How much will it reduce temps by? Loaded question with a lot of variables. How much fluid is in the system, how much air does the exchanger get, how big is the exchanger, and what kind of driving will you be doing.

Diff coolers are neat if you plan to track the car seriously for half hour or longer sessions, but kind of redundant otherwise. If youre not over heating the fluid, you dont really need one imo. The oil needs to be at a proper temp to work right too, too cold and youll do more harm than good. Not sure if thatll be a factor or not honestly, but its worth checking.

Whats your intended purpose for the car? If 99% of the vehicles time is going to be spent on the streets, I wouldnt bother. If you plan to track race regularly, it might be worth looking into- Id recommend monitoring the temps under track conditions a few times though before you decide. You may or may not be getting too hot- You can use a simple heat-gun on the diff as soon as you pull in, or use some thermal tape (changes colors as it gets hotter) to see the hottest it got to.

Vlsds are "Decent" for track racing, but thats about it imo. Theyll help you put down a little more power than an open diff- but thats about it, and thats only if you dont slide/spin a wheel (in which case itll act like an open dif), or pick the inside tire up on a corner (again, open dif).
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Oddmanout84
Posted: May 14 2011, 09:50 AM
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I'm bringing this over from the other thread before it gets over-cluttered with off topic shit.

Any diff is going to break under abuse, and its TQ that breaks them, not hp. Jumping to conclusions that the R200 is weak and should be replaced just because the one in your shitbox gave up the ghost (while other cars with up to 800hp/tq continue to beat the shit out of them and still run them with great success) is RETARDED. There's many different ways any component to fail, and you're ASSUMING it's because of your car's power output when it could have to do with something entirely different (and likely is). Try inspecting the components and look up references for failure diagnosis.

Get another R200 in good condition and install it and service it correctly. Or, if you're still under the delusion that they're not good enough have fun fabricating a cradle for an R230. The R230 is a good replacement but you're going about swapping the R200 for all the wrong reasons.

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S12 Drifter
Posted: May 16 2011, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (Oddmanout84 @ May 14 2011, 01:50 PM)
I'm bringing this over from the other thread before it gets over-cluttered with off topic shit.

Any diff is going to break under abuse, and its TQ that breaks them, not hp. Jumping to conclusions that the R200 is weak and should be replaced just because the one in your shitbox gave up the ghost (while other cars with up to 800hp/tq continue to beat the shit out of them and still run them with great success) is RETARDED. There's many different ways any component to fail, and you're ASSUMING it's because of your car's power output when it could have to do with something entirely different (and likely is). Try inspecting the components and look up references for failure diagnosis.

Get another R200 in good condition and install it and service it correctly. Or, if you're still under the delusion that they're not good enough have fun fabricating a cradle for an R230. The R230 is a good replacement but you're going about swapping the R200 for all the wrong reasons.

I'm going on with a Vlsd R200, i believe the R200s are amaing diffs, there a 700hp Z31 running a open diff R200.

I'm just flabbergasted as to why it decided to explode lol
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Oddmanout84
Posted: May 16 2011, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE (S12 Drifter @ 4 hours, 4 minutes ago)
I'm going on with a Vlsd R200, i believe the R200s are amaing diffs, there a 700hp Z31 running a open diff R200.

I'm just flabbergasted as to why it decided to explode lol

Diffs are a forgotten, rarely serviced item for some reason. Could have been years of neglect and then having to put up with the strain of additional power. Did you ever service or inspect yours?

It could have had one of a "bad batch" of gears with a crack that QA missed.

It could have been poor alignment of the driveshaft.

It could have been a chunk of casting flash that broke off the casing while the diff was running at high speed and the gears ingested it.

It could have been a lot of things. The only hope you have of maybe finding out is to inspect the pieces. This would be a good idea to do now.
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