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> Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune 3DX+ Machine info, Info on components of WMMT 3DX+ cabinet
Crow
Posted: Mar 9 2015, 09:40 PM
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Hi Guys,

I have recently purchased my very own WMMT 3DX+ cabinet for my private collection and use.

As you all know, these machines are old and have been played ALOT leading to alot of worn parts (especially in the Japanese cabinets as they smoke in arcades over there)

My machine was/is not in the greatest condition as bought, however I have done alot of work on reverse engineering the components to replace parts as cheaply as possible.

I found little to NO information on the web currently where someone has posted any sort of detailed information on the maintenance and parts make up on this machine, short of buying brand new parts from Namco (EXTREMELY uneconomical!)

Please feel free to add any knowledge you may have or correct me.


So below is a breakdown of what I have found out about the specs of the Namco System N2 and the cabinet


First of all WMMT3/DX/+ is a LINUX BASED (Debian) game

The System that runs WMMT3/DX/+ is called the Namco system N2.

It comprises of the following components:

MOTHERBOARD

Motherboard is an NVIDIA Nforce2 based chipset (I have not been able to match the board to any manufacturer.. YET)

RAM

The Motherboard accepts up to 2 sticks of 1GB DDR400 3200 speed RAM

CPU

The CPU is an AMD Athlon socket A / 462 type.

My original one was specifically an AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ which was AMDs MOBILE CPU range.

I have test fitted an AMD Athlon XP 3200+ to the Mobo and it worked extremely well. Load times were about 4x faster HOWEVER due to this CPU being for a desktop device after about 10-15 minutes of running the game crashes and resets. I believe this is due to the standard power supply unit not being sufficient for the extra power required for the desktop CPU.

GFX CARD

The Graphics card is a version of the Nvidia Geforce 4 series

POWER SUPPLY

Power supply is a simple 240 volt unit. I beleive it supports about 410 watts

HARD DRIVE

The Hard drive that my unit came supplied with was a 2.5" IDE Seagate 80GB drive with the 3DX+ software installed. The Mobo uses IDE ports


USB DONGLES


My unit also came with 2 security dongles that are REQUIRED to boot the game and are unique to the hard drive serial. They contain a program called HASP V0.06 that is anti piracy security lock software.

EXTRAS

Along with these above components we have less critical ones, such as the sound card setup, which is a simple 5.1 with red and white AUX output that runs to the sound PCB.

There is a connection port for the I/O boards next to the USB / Ethernet ports which connects up all the input devices such as the Steering assembly, card reader and shifter.

Maintenance on the Shifter and Steering assembly are generally simple parts replacement which can be completed with a basic mechanical knowledge, and there is also full cabinet manuals available online to help you step by step on the parts break down (I have a copy and will post on request)


As I find out more about the machine I will be sure to update this article. THANKS!

This post has been edited by Crow on Mar 12 2015, 03:32 PM
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Gunma's 34
Posted: Mar 9 2015, 09:53 PM
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Someone sticky this for those planning to have and purchase a home port of WMMT (older series)
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cabbie
Posted: Mar 10 2015, 12:28 AM
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Tried contacting the respective companies for those items?
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Crow
Posted: Mar 10 2015, 06:50 PM
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Cabbie, On my personal machine I have replaced the RAM with 2 new 1GB sticks and I have a new AMD socket 462 CPU on the way (both items are readily available from ebay suppliers).

The only thing at this stage that im unsure about is the actual motherboard product number which would point me to the manufacturer.

The Seagate hard drives are a dime a dozen but the serial locking software prevents you simply copying the data (something im also looking into and will post more about in the future)

As I post this I have managed to get the game running stable again without crashes with full use of the card reader as well. It does still have itermitant lag issues which im hoping will be fixed by a fresh CPU.
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weirdo808hi
Posted: Mar 10 2015, 10:25 PM
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There a guy named Andy Geezer he fixes arcade games, any and all types I believe. He seems to know a lot about the different arcade specific systems out there, if you have questions I'm sure he would have the answer. He also said something about it being possible to use 630 chipset board for MT3 UK versions. Heres his post on FaceBook - https://www.facebook.com/AndyGeezerServices...151330515809589

This post has been edited by weirdo808hi on Mar 10 2015, 10:26 PM
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Crow
Posted: Mar 11 2015, 06:13 PM
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Very interesting read. What im assuming is, that the files written to the UK distributed HDDs are different to the japanese ones and dont require the Nvidia motherboards BIOS booting kernel to start the game maybe.

I will look into the different final versions and see what I can find out
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vash944
Posted: Mar 11 2015, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE (Crow @ 37 minutes, 46 seconds ago)
Very interesting read. What im assuming is, that the files written to the UK distributed HDDs are different to the japanese ones and dont require the Nvidia motherboards BIOS booting kernel to start the game maybe.

I will look into the different final versions and see what I can find out

Methinks Namco UK did a workaround just to make it simpler, must be darn different than International counterpart

What version of WMMT3DX+ cab did you get?

Assuming you got the international editon

If I could afford a WMMT3 series cabs, I chose the WMMT3 since its rarely found and easier to do something I can't discuss this on this forum

Your topic is quite interesting assuming we can franken-ized certain parts in that cabinet of WMMT3 Series
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N643
Posted: Mar 11 2015, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (vash944 @ 15 minutes, 2 seconds ago)
Methinks Namco UK did a workaround just to make it simpler, must be darn different than International counterpart

What version of WMMT3DX+ cab did you get?

Assuming you got the international editon

If I could afford a WMMT3 series cabs, I chose the WMMT3 since its rarely found and easier to do something I can't discuss this on this forum

Your topic is quite interesting assuming we can franken-ized certain parts in that cabinet of WMMT3 Series

u can also do it on dx as well
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Crow
Posted: Mar 11 2015, 08:50 PM
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Vash, my machine is from Japan (I am in Australia) but it has the english international version of 3DX+ hard drive installed.

As far as the Cabs go all the WMMT 3/DX/+ are the same, they just have different Hard drives and USB dongles installed.

There are WMMT 3 HDDs available that I can simply buy and plug into my machine if I wanted, maybe you could PM me the other things you are talking about :P

In regards to the UK version I would love if someone could take some internal photos of a UK Cab version to see the difference.
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vash944
Posted: Mar 12 2015, 12:46 AM
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Actually I have good experience on the card R/W assembly... since one of the tech guys at the arcade near my workplace did asked me for help on recovering card data

Opening the assembly needs to unlock position on the knob to slide out the card R/W assembly from here and then you can do is:

- fill blank namco cards there (located at the backmost part with a weighted bar)
- take out card when stuck or rollers are stuck
- clean the card R/W head or rubber rollers physically

Anyways upon my observation the read/write part of data is much like how a cassette tape works, physical writing in the card is much like how a crude fax machine works meaning thermal printing, thus explains why some people use lighter on the outer portion on the card

There are certain timing on when the game reads and writes back into card and haven't experimented greatly on WMMT3DX+ yet... but the timing is similar on all WMMT3 series

Also experimenting further on magnetic cards... we have tried using local train magnetic card which is same size as namco ones and succeded loading it completely and on data retention tests, since I don't play WMMT3 much anymore my other plans were scrapped when attempting to use SEGA's Initial D3 cards there and probably won't work

This post has been edited by vash944 on Mar 12 2015, 12:53 AM
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weirdo808hi
Posted: Mar 12 2015, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE (vash944 @ 22 minutes, 53 seconds ago)
Also experimenting further on magnetic cards... we have tried using local train magnetic card which is same size as namco ones and succeded loading it completely and on data retention tests, since I don't play WMMT3 much anymore my other plans were scrapped when attempting to use SEGA's Initial D3 cards there and probably won't work

The Initial D Version 1 / 2 / 3 cards will work on Max Tune though the card will turn full black as the card was never made to have print rewritten physically as it used heat to add physical print to IDAS 1-3 cards. The same can be said for Derby Owners Club cards as well since it uses the same card system as IDAS 1-3.
Mario Kart 1-2 cards are similar to Max Tune 1 / 2 so its obvious those work as well.


I am actually in the process of getting my own machine though I am working on trying to find some HDD and Dongles for 3DX+ English / Japanese as well as MT3 Eng / JP. As the machine I am planning on getting only has 3DX Eng currently.
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Ducky
Posted: Mar 12 2015, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (vash944 @ Yesterday, 6:51 PM)
If I could afford a WMMT3 series cabs, I chose the WMMT3 since its rarely found and easier to do something I can't discuss this on this forum

Not just that, I liked MT3 cause of its revamped feel compared to 1-2. Also the Official Machine Time Attack allows you to just make a card and have a full tuned car to go.
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Crow
Posted: Mar 12 2015, 03:22 PM
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UPDATED CPU SECTION
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WRX22B1998
Posted: Mar 12 2015, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (Crow @ 27 minutes, 57 seconds ago)
UPDATED CPU SECTION

given the original was a mobile cpu, the motherboard might not support the wattage needed by a regular desktop cpu (which would cause the crashes)

just a guess, i don't really have experience with these things.

This post has been edited by WRX22B1998 on Mar 12 2015, 04:22 PM
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vash944
Posted: Mar 12 2015, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (WRX22B1998 @ 1 hour, 34 minutes ago)
given the original was a mobile cpu, the motherboard might not support the wattage needed by a regular desktop cpu (which would cause the crashes)

just a guess, i don't really have experience with these things.

I dunno about AMD processor chips but in Intel's side the processor of desktop and laptop are differently sized

I believe that the AMD processor chip is a desktop variant but you should get the same batch lineup of socket versions, if that thing fits the mobile variant is most likely to be undervolted in electrical current that it might not work

Also my advice to an AMD ones is to have a dependable cooling system (these kids can fry eggs sunny side up in seconds if cooling fan fail) and I also not advising you to get those uber expensive ones or water cooling systems

This post has been edited by vash944 on Mar 12 2015, 05:26 PM
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JASON_PH_YOLO
Posted: Mar 15 2015, 07:40 AM
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Hiw will the connection to be able to use your old discarded vehicle datas going to work?

Dont you need the updates and software updates from NAMCO to be able to play?

It is unless you still have the old discards from 3.

Rebuilding the machines entails actually having a FRESH system. So you still need the files and official licensing from Namco.

Pull this off...You will be my idol and personal hero.

I love your passion to restore.
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vash944
Posted: Mar 15 2015, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (JASON_PH_YOLO @ Today, 7:40 AM)
Hiw will the connection to be able to use your old discarded vehicle datas going to work?

Dont you need the updates and software updates from NAMCO to be able to play?

It is unless you still have the old discards from 3.

Rebuilding the machines entails actually having a FRESH system. So you still need the files and official licensing from Namco.

Pull this off...You will be my idol and personal hero.

I love your passion to restore.

WMMT3 series cabinets have fewer updates thus the bloddier part is when the seller of these have these versions or not... however even older version it should run the game flawlessly

As for discards it is very specific versions to work, so if sir Crow got DX+ meaning only DX+ discards can be used

The insane part when someone actually did a custom box to make WMMT3 series cabinet fully working (meaning they got a way using a different PC parts other than Namco's version)

Also on video cards that are very specific on the board connectors meaning it might be as old as AGP series or rather if you can get certain info on NVidia on what version and you can upgrade the nearest compatible card
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Crow
Posted: Mar 17 2015, 04:38 PM
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I have a bunch of brand new blank cards that I just recycle nto new cards after they become discards.

I have all the files backed up to a Linux computer (this is for the long time upkeep of my own machine) but the REAL challenge is working out the BOOT firmware on the BIOS. untill this is replicated we wont be able to use any other chipsets to run the game which worries me for the long term because these chipsets are OLD and have had a hard life.

As for versions, the versions are specific to the hard drive you have. When they upgraded to DX / + they simply replaced the hard drive with the new "version" and new USB dongle.

As I write this though I have managed to get my machine running 100% stable at the proper speed without any crashes for long periods of time on the following setup:

CPU = AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ (obtained a much fresher replacement to original)

RAM = 2x Brand new 1GB DDR400 3200 speed sticks (This seems to have been the key to stop random crashes and laggy gameplay)

The rest of the system is running stock standard

I have managed to grind out hours of story mode, 10 out run, time attack & ghost battles without any problems!
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Antares
Posted: Mar 17 2015, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (Crow @ 37 minutes, 24 seconds ago)
I have all the files backed up to a Linux computer (this is for the long time upkeep of my own machine) but the REAL challenge is working out the BOOT firmware on the BIOS. untill this is replicated we wont be able to use any other chipsets to run the game which worries me for the long term because these chipsets are OLD and have had a hard life.

I guess NAMCO really did a lot of hard-coding in that area, but isn't there an emulator for the System N2? There are emulators for Sega's NAOMI that run IDAS.
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vash944
Posted: Mar 17 2015, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Crow @ 41 minutes, 33 seconds ago)

CPU = AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ (obtained a much fresher replacement to original)

RAM = 2x Brand new 1GB DDR400 3200 speed sticks (This seems to have been the key to stop random crashes and laggy gameplay)

The rest of the system is running stock standard

I have managed to grind out hours of story mode, 10 out run, time attack & ghost battles without any problems!

If it were on medical jargon, I'd say you given this old man a major surgery...

Truly replacing CPU and RAM does help the stability of the game, but do check from time to time on the cooling fan on the CPU and make sure it doesn't die or fail at a critical moment (AMD processors get really hot as 200 degrees celsius if no Heatsink/Fan, meaning you can boil water in seconds or fry an egg in seconds and toasted especially on that batch of processors)

As for GPU/Video card situations if you feel certain big weird pixels not found in the game and that might be the culprit primarily

I believe CPU and RAM are now least of your worries even quarterly checkups at the earliest if you happen to play 4-6 hours everyday
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Crow
Posted: Mar 17 2015, 07:45 PM
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Vash you are exactly right the AMDs do run very hot! The N2 is a really loud system too. The game will probably get run on average about 10 - 15 hours a week which is nowhere near the abuse they got from arcade use.

I will absolutely be doing regular check ups on the fans (there are 3) and if one was to fail I would invest in some brand new more efficient larger ones. I have already permanently removed the top metal panel for better airflow (the metal actually has burn marks from running so long!)

I do still want to upgrade to power supply unit in the future to see if I can get the AMD Athlon XP 3200+ running stable.

-Antares, there is nothing to emulate, the N2 is a PC running Linux essentially. What needs to be done is the BIOS BOOT firmware needs to be somehow downloaded and decoded.

The Video card in my machine was thankfully replaced when they did the 3DX+ HDD install (it has an install date taped to it) so hopefully this will last a long time. The display is currently 100% no dead pixels no colour fading or burned image (which I was very surprised!) i will post up a few pics of my machine soon so you guys can see the ins and outs of it.

This post has been edited by Crow on Mar 17 2015, 07:47 PM
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weirdo808hi
Posted: Mar 17 2015, 08:19 PM
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From someone I have talked to the video card is a Nvidia 7600GS 256MB card, though you cannot just pop in one you would have to flash the BIOS on the card itself with some special Namco BIOS in order for it to run on the system. From what the person told me if you try to install the 512MB version it will artifact or something but the 256MB version seems to be the one the machine will work perfectly with.

This is the video card in my current Maximum Tune 3 Japanese board the Nvidia 7600GS 256MB Video Card that has the BIOS flashed to the Namco BIOS. (sorry my board pic is blurry)
The game runs perfectly fine with this video card in it, though I haven't tried any other versions in it.

(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/PKs3I0Z.jpg)
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This post has been edited by weirdo808hi on Mar 25 2015, 11:48 PM
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vash944
Posted: Mar 17 2015, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Crow @ 38 minutes, 46 seconds ago)
Vash you are exactly right the AMDs do run very hot! The N2 is a really loud system too. The game will probably get run on average about 10 - 15 hours a week which is nowhere near the abuse they got from arcade use.

I will absolutely be doing regular check ups on the fans (there are 3) and if one was to fail I would invest in some brand new more efficient larger ones. I have already permanently removed the top metal panel for better airflow (the metal actually has burn marks from running so long!)

I do still want to upgrade to power supply unit in the future to see if I can get the AMD Athlon XP 3200+ running stable.

-Antares, there is nothing to emulate, the N2 is a PC running Linux essentially. What needs to be done is the BIOS BOOT firmware needs to be somehow downloaded and decoded.

The Video card in my machine was thankfully replaced when they did the 3DX+ HDD install (it has an install date taped to it) so hopefully this will last a long time. The display is currently 100% no dead pixels no colour fading or burned image (which I was very surprised!) i will post up a few pics of my machine soon so you guys can see the ins and outs of it.

At least your vendor was quite generous for that...

Anyways, if you gonna do a major checkup make sure you clean some dust bunnies too along the way (probably a year or so you will encounter it)

If the PSU is the el cheapo standard... and quite the same as normally PC would, I do suggest investing a Branded true rated PSU or check the connectors which can be used there for a PSU
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Antares
Posted: Mar 18 2015, 06:09 AM
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QUOTE (Crow @ Today, 11:45 AM)
Antares, there is nothing to emulate, the N2 is a PC running Linux essentially. What needs to be done is the BIOS BOOT firmware needs to be somehow downloaded and decoded.

The Video card in my machine was thankfully replaced when they did the 3DX+ HDD install (it has an install date taped to it) so hopefully this will last a long time. The display is currently 100% no dead pixels no colour fading or burned image (which I was very surprised!) i will post up a few pics of my machine soon so you guys can see the ins and outs of it.

Ohh, thanks for that. I was assuming the N2 is a platform like NAOMI, didn't realize it was referring to the entire machine.

As for the machine, I don't think it's gonna be encountering issues unless cooling becomes a problem. Speaking of which, given the amount of processing the system does, what kind of ventilation/cooling does it have? I'm curious as to how these things run for an entire day at arcades of varying temperatures and still keep on going.
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Crow
Posted: Mar 24 2015, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (Antares @ Mar 18 2015, 06:09 AM)
As for the machine, I don't think it's gonna be encountering issues unless cooling becomes a problem. Speaking of which, given the amount of processing the system does, what kind of ventilation/cooling does it have? I'm curious as to how these things run for an entire day at arcades of varying temperatures and still keep on going.

Hey mate sorry for the late reply I have been away!

The cooling is 2 main fans and a CPU fan. if you ask me, these were NOT designed to last especially since they almost all were run in high heat areas such as cramped arcades.

Its like they put the absolute minimum to keep them running for 3-5 years of hard use. For home use the setup is completely fine in a well ventilated room.
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