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Your friends are the exception. I'm talking about players who do nothing boost off and have to live off the boost. If you don't have to do something in a game, odds are you won't do it. I never Roman Cancel in Guilty Gear, Bara Cancel in Melty Blood, or a whole host of other things, cause I don't need it to win against my friends. The majority of Boost On players won't bother learning the lines in the game cause they don't need it to win in their group: boost will do the rest. So long as they're in range, they can boost to victory.

He scratched up my car and knocked off both mirrors after that race ;_; ...

Wouldn't of been so ghey if he wasn't relying so much on boost to catch up, I mean, I was owning his R34 on Yokohane with my Celsior (which was the only car he couldn't ram), but he catches up at the last couple meters ._. ....

So then by that token, do you block boost off? Because you shouldn't have to if you're better than the other racer.

Or was that paragraph of yours earlier on contradictory to this?

Because for someone who touts boost on players as having little to no skill, not learning lines and stuff, and goes on and on about how he doesn't need cheap tactics to beat people at other games, you shouldn't be part of the "i block boost off" crowd, but you admittedly are. I find that confusing and contradictory.

i never need to shift above 4th gear, dont need to play manual to win against 5 year olds.. whats your point?

if you dont know how to do something in a game.. chances are, you will say that its unncessary and wont use it

just because you dont see the values of those things doesnt mean they are not necessary

Boost Off is not the true assessment of skill its hailed to be. Why? Allow me to explain.

If you haven't noticed, more often than not, the person in the front of the pack will win if he can avoid bumping into the walls, or in other words, if he is equal to skill against his opponent. Fairly obvious right?

But what is not obvious is that the player in front is granted a far greater margin for error than the person behind. Here are the reasons:

1. If the person in front messes up, he often has the chance to block the player behind as his car slows down, intentionally or not. In a race thats very closely contested, there are only a few opportunities to pass in the whole race and so often do I see the front player messes up and the person following his tail accidentally bumps into him and loses more speed than the car which crashed.

2. The traffic pattern is so much more friendly to the leader than the person behind. Have you seen people of similar skill running hundreds of meters apart in boost off? And that the second person hit a car right? Thats because the traffic patterns often changes for the trailing player and can often lead to impossible situations (eg. yesterday in Osaka, I had a car stuck in the middle of the entry point to a very narrow turn and there is absolutely nothing I can do to avoid it because the traffic pattern changed as I was trailing the player in front.)

I am sure you have heard someone silently saying "yes" everytime he is in front of the pack in boost off and that is exactly the reason. Its so much easier for the car in front to win that Boost Off is merely a roll of the dice of seeing who is luckier for people within the same skill range.

I should rephrase: I never learnt to use Roman and Bara Cancels in GG and MB, because I never needed it. I know that pro players use them, because at their level RC and Bara are key elements of their game, but for me it's a lot of effort for a win which I would have anyway.

I think you're misunderstanding what I said. I'm saying blocking boost off isn't cheap, but it's a legit strategy, and is part of the game, just like ramming is. Nobody will be 100% perfect in their lines, slaloming etc. If I mess up in front, yes I block. If my opponent messes with my line, I might decide to ram a bit. Or a lot, depending on the person, the course, how far along we were in the battle, and my general mood. If people find this hard to accept they should play another game (y halo thar Trackmania)

I'll assume you play more than 5 year olds. When you play against other people who are evenly matched with you (i.e. not idiots with duped cards, 5 year olds, 'drifters' etc), you'll need to go above 4 (unless you're in a HiACE other 4 gear thing). Hence, you will learn to shift above 4 if you didn't before, take the correct lines (cause how else can you keep up?), use the correct setup etc etc etc.

I'm the one arguing for blockers and (intelligent) rammers here. I'm arguing for the use and not the banning techniques and tactics which were included as part of the game, whether intentionally or not.

quite frankly, i dont really care what you are arguing for or against

but the fact that people dont do something because they dont need to is wrong

against 280's.. so what?? you dont need to shift above 4 so therefore for all 280 races you dont shift above 4 because you dont need to?? there are still plenty of things that you can do with a fully tuned car against 280's..
the fact is that your thinking in that people won't go an extra step just because they dont need to is false logic

i fail to see how this is really relevant.. but im assuming that you are relating it to the fact that you like boost off because you have never raced anyone better and didnt need it....dont worry.. everyone thinks they are good.. and dont see that stuff.. until they get their ass kicked.. yeah.. i dont need RC, ill just do a move, with bad lag.. and eat a combo taking half my health.. NO PROBLEM!

This post has been edited by 5D911 on Mar 8 2008, 03:02 PM

I already said I phrased my comment badly and corrected it in my last post. And please bear in mind that this is a game (I never thought I'd be saying this), so the majority of people will do as little as they can get away with, unlike in real life.

Shifting up gears in a race is one thing. Learning how to consistently take a record breaking line which takes you within an inch of both walls is another. What do you think requires serious dedication and not just common sense? The second one of course. So if there is no need to learn to do it, the vast majority won't. However, amongst the people who have got the line down pat, they will use it most of the time to guarantee a win; at that point it's very little effort, cause the hard bit i.e. the learning is over.

Much like how you'll stick to manual when you get that under your belt. It might take 2 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 hours, but once you learn how to use manual, you'll seldom go back to Auto, unless you're tired, bored, or drunk (?).

The guys who complain and ban ramming and blocking in their group will get their butts handed to them when they race guys who don't care for bans and practiced how to block and ram. Much like how I'd get my ass handed to me if my friends were pros in MB, because I never learned how to do or deal with a Bara, and the fact that they'll be using better combos than me.

I can either whine about Bara being cheap, or use these losses as an incentive to train up and learn to Bara and to practice that 3 frame combo they used to kick my ass.

And WTF is that crap about 'you never needed boos to win?' Boost on isn't a skill/tactic/technique to perfect like wall tapping is. It's a condition which many don't like because they feel it takes away from the game. Or is the prospect of coming from -500m after rear ending a truck too cool to pass up for you? Or maybe you just like the yoyoing aspect of 2 cars trading positions constantly for no apparent reason.

This post has been edited by Tensa on Mar 8 2008, 03:26 PM

so basically.. if im racing against 5 year olds all day, i shouldnt have the slightest incentive to get better, since i dont need the skill and marginal return of effort is not worth it, and i should do what i do now..

this is the reason why some people gets better than others and why some people just stop improving.. because "they dont need it"

so using your guilty gear reference, it is serious dedication to press three buttons at once?? i never knew, perhaps i will unlearn the skill since it takes too much effort

You don't unlearn things easily, just like you don't learn things easily.

Shifting is like, teh basics. You should have that already.

RCing is easy. RC combos take more time and dedication. Jump Install combos take even more time after that and... you get the idea.

I'll reply to your edit tomorrow.

Tensa, if you hit a wall in a boost off match, and the person behind you was going to pass because he/she made the better line, you blocking them is just you not willing to give the other racer the credit that he/she deserves.

Shift, there was so much wrong with your post that I don't really want to go through it all.

The person in front has no conceivable advantage. Your mention about traffic being more friendly is false, because that car that blocked you off could've been there for anyone in any position.

Your other mention of people in front usually winning is also false, but I shouldn't have to explain why. Yeah, you can ram if you want while you're ahead, but by that token, you can also ram if you're behind to get ahead, so that point can go either way and isn't an advantage to anyone.

This post has been edited by MaxX on Mar 8 2008, 03:34 PM

its okay.. you dont have to.. i completely understand your point, so basically.. i wont be on the forums tomorrow.i heed your advice

i just simply wont get out of bed tomorrow because i dont really need to, if i do, there is the hassle of finding things to do, and its not worth the effort.. hell i wont even open my eyelids tomorrow.. whats the point in waste muscle power to open them, when im gonna have to close them eventually anyways

This post has been edited by 5D911 on Mar 8 2008, 03:35 PM

Its not that only you move, the traffic moves as well. The traffic is IDEAL when the first player passes (the theory in the game is that if you take a perfect line, you should never need to dodge the traffic) but since the traffic is moving, that same truck might have changed lanes or be further ahead for the second player and hence the added difficulty esp. if its in the player's 'line'.

I am not really talking about ramming here but rather involuntary blocking. We usually have a rule here that you NEVER ram intentionally in SoCal when it comes to boost off. But what I often see is that the front player accidentally taps the wall and slows down but the player hugging behind often doesn't have time to react and bump the car in front, hencing slowing himself down and giving the car in front a boost.

This post has been edited by SHIFT on Mar 8 2008, 03:44 PM

actually.. heh there is kind of a traffic advantage
this always happens to me when playing osaka and im behind
usually first corner cp3 osaka
first guy goes thru...there is a truck right on the left lane and so instead of full throttling it like in TA he brakes abit goes down to like 240 to avoid hitting the outside because he cant get a wider line coming into it
depending on how far you are behind, when you reach the corner the truck is right at the exit of the corner, so either you crash into it ... or you brake down to like 180 to avoid hitting it because you only have 1 lane to exit on as the trucks in the middle, so if its boost off it makes it alot harder to catch up as the person infront had an advantage which wasnt available to you
this always happens... its random as hell and all depends on how far you are behind
usually its only like 80m
@HARU .. there is only TA to measure skill
you cannot measure skill in battle whether it be boost on or off, ghost or player vs player

This post has been edited by BDDEE@ on Mar 8 2008, 04:44 PM

The trick is..the truck is just there to scare you. If you are the first person to enter and you have the balls, full throttle that turn and you shoul have a huge advantage when coming out, basicly whenever someone selects that ramp as a start, the person who makes it out in one piece usually takes the cake and the game..

traffic... the only real advantage to those who have a higher rank...
sometimes the lower ranks are not used to it...

thats where the boost off battles sometimes get.. err. stupid.

no as in.. when the leader enters the turn, the truck is on the left so he has to take a IN IN OUT line...you cannot full throttle that corner with that type of line or you will hit that small outer wall

actually with the TA line, you can. I often full throttle that corner in 6 with the truck there.

There really is nothing different between that turn and the turn in TA besides the truck, which you shouldn't hit either way as its on the left if you are taking IN then OUT.

I totally agree with the boost off argument.
To play against me and keep up boost off,
ill admit you need skill and you would train yourself because my TA is some of the best in the world. Lets face it, to be within a second of the WR isnt something to brag about but something to be ashamed of, when your within .1 or .2, good your starting to hit times, but till then, train yourself with boost off battles to train your TA lines. Remember, better TA lines equal better battle lines. Boost off battle measures a lot of true skill, for example, boost on battles, people have a chance to keep up and just ram me at the end to pass, but i wonder on every single boost off battle i play, i win by 300 meters or more? its kinda of a mystery huh? Boost off, no one, or hardly no one can take the person with better skill and i have proved that at AI millions of times even when im behind 100 meters, ill end up 100 meters in front by the end. PLain and Simple, more TA skill means more battle speed potential.

This post has been edited by Speed on Mar 9 2008, 12:10 AM

there would be a difference
because TA you take out in out line...and because in the battle the truck is on the left lane it cancels the the first OUT... so you have to adjust to IN IN OUT line.. and usually if you do that you will hit outer wall...but even if you can full throttle it with that line the fact remains that the opponent depending on how far they are away when they get to that corner the truck is at the exit so they have to slow down to avoid crashing into it

exactly my point as well....because I often find people trailing me 50m+ after that turn if I take it right and those people know the course inside out as well.

I cannot believe what you just said.

You're applying an arguement for a video game to real life? I hope to whatever Diety you believe in and the God I believe in that applying the 'I don't need to so I won't' logic for games to your life does not result in not having to wake up cause there's nothing to do.

You could turn it around and say that if the guy from got blocked and whined about the guy in front that he was denying credit to the guy in front. If you take a wallhit, it means that your control for one reason or another is sub par. It might be you're tired, you're new to the game, distracted or whatever, and you're gonna get pwn'd sooner or later anyway, blocking or not.

Another Arguement for blocking is say that I'm taking my FD to race against an evenly matched Skyline on Osaka (as in, player lap times are even, and cars are max tuned). My FD might be stronger in 1 section, like the 2 red left>right corners leading into a left red, but the Skyline is stronger on that huge ass straight that goes for 4 lanes. Should I just let him go on that straight if I managed to pass him on a cornering section earlier? Should he just let me walk past him through in bits with corners after getting an effective headstart with his acceleration? Both examples of course assume that we don't hit anything, we take good lines etc etc.

I have a feeling that everyone here that hate boost on battle is the victim of "last minute robbed off victory"...

Players usually manage to catch up with you a few hundred meters before the race ends and when you're utilizing TA lining to clear the corner faster to reach the finishing line faster, somehow the trailing opponent managed to tap your bumper and either sending you to the wall or cushion you to gain the lead and robbed off your victory...

hear hear

yeap. to loose when you've been the better driver is an awesome letdown of boost on battles