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Hey, at least they made something original; not a rebadged model.

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Anyone remember this car

I guess you know much about Top Gear UK as I do

the robbin is one awesome piece of.crap, dont hate cuz u cant.handle the fury or crappiness (either.way)

We were actually referring to Mr. Bean's hated for that trike.

For some reason, I hate drifting, drifters and drift cars. As an import and Initial D fan, I should like them, but I feel they're vandalizing cars in search of not performance, but on how well it will slide a corner.

Why should I build a 5000hp S13 with generic BN Sports body kits and obnoxious Monster Energy decals when you can just buy an 80s beater and hoon the sh*t out of in snow? You bought a fast car to go fast, not to slide around corners. You made a car powerful so it can go faster, not to slide around corners. You made it stable so it can go even faster, not to slide around corners.

And thus I have earned the ire of the JDM fanboys.

Hmm interesting, I'm quite a fanatic of both ID and drift cars. But you should realise that the drifting done in ID and drifting per say D1GP or Formula D is quite different and what both categories are trying to achieve are also vastly different

In Initial D, the whole use of drifting is to go faster around a corner then they would if they kept the car on the racing line and kept the car as linear to the road as possible.

In competitions like FD however, the criteria is a lot different, from the top of my head you have judges and give you a score based on the main factors of angle, speed, style and overall impression. They're given a course which have clipping points and scores go higher the close they are to these points.

Can I take a stab in the dark and say that the only drifting you've seen has been done from people sponsored by Monster Energy? Ken Block and Vaughn Gittin Jr. just to name a few.

Because not all drift cars are exactly based like that, most drifters you'll find are using missiles/beaters. The cars in FD are well in excess of 700hp but these guys can't afford any shortage of power when it comes to drifting as lower power = cars don't slide/drift as far.

If you really want to enjoy some grass roots drifting on YouTube, search up some Ebisu Matsuris and some D1GP/D1SL and/or Japan orientated drift competitions where power isn't exactly the main forte unlike FD.

I hope this figured out some of your troubles towards drifting

Drift to race =/= Drift for style points.

The only ire @Deskyx got attention of was those of the west of the world and those following the D1GP worldwide.

And not all cars that can drift =/= D1 drifting.

Drift to race cars mostly involve downhill slopes where they compensate for their low power outputs, though some like the Japanese D1 impliments rules of both drift racing and the US themed D1, the power output from the east is more balanced and refined - focusing more on transmission tuning over a mega power surge.

You forgot to add Rhys Millen and the other guy who participated for Pontiac, and naturalized D1 drifter for the US drift scene, Dai Yoshihara. Oh, and Shots fired.

and if that's the case, then he should also hate on the WRC - an AWD, rough terrain derivation of drifting's origins, where the latter's done on smooth asphalt.

This post has been edited by Gunma's 34 on Dec 4 2014, 05:02 PM

Thank you for a civilized response. However I have seen D1GP events, and I have to say, they still bore me very, very much. While D1 cars are far more conservative in tune due to stricter regulations such as mandatory standard interior, I still fail to see the point of it. Sure the drivers are skilled, sure it looks cool and is cool, but building cars and training drivers just for the sake of that coolness kind of ruins the point.

Err, drifting with any sort of traction slows you down. As Tsuchiya said: I drift not because it is a quicker way around a corner, but it is the most exciting way. Unless you're on dirt, I doubt you'll see better times skidding around.

The thing is, I simply don't enjoy drifting at all. Especially grassroots drifting or Formula Drift. Perhaps I simply don't like the media attention to them. I mean look at speedhunters, aside from random builds, its all about drifting.

@Gunma Drift to race kinds of defeats the whole point, unless you're on dirt or on tires with no traction. Because drifting in a slow car, makes your slow car even slower. You want to stay in your powerband? Downshift. Keep to a low gear.

I do hate on current WRC. I have no interest in watching a grid of Fiestas and Focuses and Minis run around dirt. I watch racing series for the cars. This is why I like Super GT. This is why I like GT1. This is why I like Group C. This is why I don't watch F1 or WRC.

Drift to race doesn't mandatorily oblige you to actually drift through the entire route/course/track. It's considered a driving skill than a themed battle.

Not everyone drifts at races coz it's badass, sometimes they contend with a lot of factors: i.e. rear wheel spinning for one, and a lack of grip for the other; most consider it a last resort to keep their car on the race. True Tsuchiya did say that, but removing the driver from the equation, some cars benefit from drifting than a full grip drive to play it safe and still garner times equal to that of a full-grip/grip-hungry machine.

Highly applicable to certain aspirated cars with a specific RPM powerband, where power develops more / where acceleration is quicker through the rev range - but like I mentioned, it's not always the case. (i.e. modern muscle cars) and correct me if I'm wrong but drifting was an ideal skill to learn in maintaining your pace whenever you're in a situation that'll cost you the run / when you lose your balance and you want to efficiently keep your pace / don't stop to clear the run.

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This post has been edited by Gunma's 34 on Dec 4 2014, 10:51 PM

Absolutely. It is important as a high performance driver to be able to cope when the car starts acting unpredictably.

But in making lap times, already slipping will already ruin your time, even if you manage to correct it.

Regardless controlling your car's slide is important. I didn't bash on the act itself, I bash on the cars they built to do so.

Blame Hollywood. I'm an avid JDM enthusiast but I honestly detest TFTF Tokyo Drift.

This post has been edited by Gunma's 34 on Dec 5 2014, 12:31 AM

Eh, your preference Desky, vut still it's sort of odd to talk about lap times with a drift car because it's the wrong variable to talk about.

Obviously your emphasis is about lap time, which is fine I guess but the good thing about drifting is to watch the consant proximity drivers are at after qualifying. Sorta like watching a positional battle in a race.

I don't mind Super GT/LMP sorta thing but I find drifting a lot more enjoyable then watching those races because most vehicles used for drifting minus Formula D are pretty achievable by the average joe.

Closest thing I'm gonna get to driving an LMP or Super GT car is a ride along as a passenger

The only thing I hate about TFTF Tokyo Drift is the Veilside RX7. And the amount of drift fanboys and GTA montages that go "mah liaife be laife ooooowwaaaaa".

I think that movie was the last FnF that didn't sell out to market, that delivered automotive culture based entertainment instead of Italian Job and Micheal Bay crosses. Of course it knows little to the point of being almost a mockery.

@Stavingo I don't really focus that much on lap time either. I simply want to build a vehicle that does everything well, speed, handling, ride, and civility. I detest the thought of track times meaning its the better car. Back in the 90s, top speed was the king. People hung posters of the F40 and F1 and XJ220. Now internet kids brag about their favorite car's laptimes. Ohhh the GTR Nismo does it in 7:08 it is the best car evaaarrr. I used to hate the Veyron, just like everyone did back then. But looking back at it right now, it seems like a tribute to speed craze of the 90s.

I have very very odd tastes for an armchair enthusiast. Perhaps I maybe even called an armchair elitist. Not saying that's a good thing, just means I'm a pretentious jerk.

Doesn't this mean that you're contradicting yourself? Sure the McLaren F1 is the only 1 so far hitting the marks of everything in one package (not sure with civility coz of the market price & interior layout though), but if you are to rate handling too, the Veyron can't turn for sh**. The Speed 12 is a better remembrance of the 90s top speed craze (though it still can't turn to save its life); The EB110 is still far off the marks from the F1, using that as a benchmark, even if it came close to the top speed (then again, one can't have enough turbos to match a supercar V12 BMW NA with gold manifolds)

A laptime around the 'ring is the current and previous basis for the fastest car - if you are to cut the track into 4 equal segments - it pretty much sums up the entire required criteria to dub the fastest car/best car. The GT-R Nismo deserves the mark - it was a basic R35 that Nismo built to achieve all the categories you desired for in a built car (unless you're a non-4wd cultist / anti-4wd fan). For now.

This post has been edited by Gunma's 34 on Dec 5 2014, 03:02 AM

It's cool and all that you want a car that can do everything well, but like Gunma said a lap around the Nordschleife is the only way these cars will get compared ever.

What you seek in a car in one area it'll lack in another area, it's as simple as that.

This post has been edited by Stavingo on Dec 5 2014, 03:12 AM

Not really, a vehicle set up for the track means it won't have the latter two. The F1 is civil. They sacrificed its lap times for a softer and more compliant suspension. The ZR1, GT2, ACR aren't civil. I simply don't like the GTR. You can tell me it's the gateway to heaven and I still won't go within 5 meters of it. Most 90s supercars are civil, save for the F40 and Diablo SV, because then they can make a super lightweight version to sell for more $$$.

For example, I like Astons. They're as beautiful as beautiful can be, as fast as they need to be, takes corners well, and civil around town, but hopeless in setting times. I don't need the car to be the fastest, or the best handler, or the most civil. It simply just needs to be in this little zone of compromise. And it has to look good, or so ugly that looks good. Like a Mercedes Benz SLR. The car has no sense of proportions whatsoever, but the front and back in 722 guise is so goshdarned sexy.

I don't know if it's true or not but the GTR Nismo that set the record time was reportedly modified. If it's it legit time, then I will accept it as the fastest track car. But keep in mind that the ZO6 and ACR as well as Porsche's new 911 whatever hasn't been released or tested yet. The ZO6 for one looks promising.

I have a slight leaning against AWD. I do love early 4WD cars simply because of it, like the 32 to 34 GTR, and the 959.

>Nobuteru Taniguchi
>Manabu Orido
>both competed in Super GT
>both competed in WTAC
>both competed in D1GP
>both are FD Japan judges

check yourself before you wreck yourself

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also

>using hurrburgring lap times as a basis of which car is faster

shiggy diggy

This post has been edited by +-!mma_N00B-+ on Dec 5 2014, 05:44 AM

When did I say the drivers aren't skilled?

look harder, was my point purely about the skill of the drivers?

or is it that there are prominent figures that can both drive fast and support a scene that you despise?

persons that can drive cars made for a specific racing series, cars that are made for lap times, and cars that are made for something you'd call pointless, and remain competent in all of those fields?

oh and if we must build a car only to go fast, then how come drifting has strong support from many proven aftermarket brands? And even tire manufacturers?

And why is drifting now considered a sanctioned motorsport?

This post has been edited by +-!mma_N00B-+ on Dec 5 2014, 07:18 AM

So? George Orwell was one of the best writers of the past century. He supported socialism. I'm not a fan of socialism. Should immediately declare him a talentless hack because he supported ideals I don't believe in?

Drift cars do not remain competent in other racing disciplines. They're built for one purpose, set up for one purpose. Of course the motor can be paired to an adjusted chassis for touring cars, but that's a completely different vehicle, just sharing the motor. In the same way time attack cars with their massive spoilers and canrads couldn't drift for its life. If you took them off and set it up for sliding, it probably will. But it isn't the same car is it?

You bought a "performance car". You tuned it for "performance". Has anyone ever tuned a car to go slower? Performance as I know isn't how well it slides around poles to satisfy JDMfags. An FD RX-7 wasn't build to drift. It was build to kill 911s and GTRs. They just found it drifted well. No car is built to drift from the factory except the Toyota 86.

Because people watch it. Naturally said people are prime markets for aftermarket brands and tire manufacturers.

>So? George Orwell was one of the best writers of the past century. He supported socialism. I'm not a fan of socialism. Should immediately declare him a talentless hack because he supported ideals I don't believe in?

By that logic, Ken Block's not a talentless hack. True? Good.

>Drift cars do not remain competent in other racing disciplines.

And? Can open-wheelers be competent on dirt?

>If you took them off and set it up for sliding, it probably will. But it isn't the same car is it?

You think it'd be that easy? If it is, then you could just do similar things to a drift car and make it do proper lap times, couldn't you?

>You bought a "performance car". You tuned it for "performance". Has anyone ever tuned a car to go slower? Performance as I know isn't how well it slides around poles to satisfy JDMfags. An FD RX-7 wasn't build to drift. It was build to kill 911s and GTRs. They just found it drifted well. No car is built to drift from the factory except the Toyota 86.

see above

Did I even say Mr.Block is a talentless hack? I simply didn't like his style.

Yes open-wheels can be competent on dirt. Just look at dune buggies. They're open wheel and good for the dirt.

Of course not. Which is why people purpose build cars. Which is why I think some are doing it for the wrong purpose.

The response to that is you'd think it would be easy? Of course it would the RX7 FD runs with 911s and GT-Rs out of the box. Of the 86 would drift, it had thin ass tires from factory.